Hiring a Decking Contractor

[00:00:04] Speaker A: Welcome to the weekend warriors home improvement show, built by bar lumber. When it comes to big or small projects around the home, Tony and Cory have got the know how and the answers to make your life just a bit easier. Here they are, your weekend warriors, Tony and Corey. You know, Tony, it's decking season. Officially summertime. It's hot outside and it's time to replace that deck. [00:00:32] Speaker B: But it's because everybody wants to be outside. They want to spend time outside, obviously. And so to take the inside of your home, the comforts of the inside of your home outside, extend it out and have patio furniture and all of the things outside that you, that you appreciate inside, but in the sun and the breeze and all the stuff. Yeah. So the deck is a big part of it for you. It's not. Why is a deck not a big part of your back patio activities? [00:01:02] Speaker A: Well, because I have a back patio and I don't have a slopedy lot. So I don't have any situation in my property that would require a deck of any kind. And I mean, the front porch will probably would be the closest thing I have. It's about what, 16 inches off the ground maybe. But it's a big concrete pad. [00:01:24] Speaker B: Right. Concrete pad. So for you, this show is, um, is an exercise in futility. [00:01:33] Speaker A: Well, think it's things to consider for other people? [00:01:35] Speaker B: Well, the other people could be me. As you know that on my house I have a wraparound. I do have a wraparound deck that is six foot deep out from the house, 6ft, but 160ft long. And so a lot of the things that we're going to talk about here would apply to a scenario where I am replacing my deck. My deck, however, is fully covered, the whole bit of it, everything. So the framing underneath my deck is likely to be in good shape and not need to be replaced. [00:02:10] Speaker A: Good. [00:02:11] Speaker B: We were talking earlier to a mutual friend of yours and mine who has been looking at the, the need to replace his decking. He was going to replace his decking, but after getting the decking off, he realized, oh, my, the framing is not up to par. [00:02:31] Speaker A: Oh, yeah. He wanted to go with composite. He had an old wood deck that was, the surface was rotting off and he wanted to replace it with something new. But he called me and I said, well, because your deck is on the ground, you need to think about that a little more because you can't. You're actually not allowed to put composite decking that close to the ground. And the reasoning is, because it expands and contracts at different rates than wood, causing it to buckle over time. So the, the composite decking needs air to breathe underneath the deck. So that's definitely something to consider there. Right. So he did, and he pulled it up and realized that the framing was inadequate. It was all old, rotten, didn't have enough joists on center spacing. So he ended having to tear the whole thing out. But after careful consideration, he didn't want to put wood back down because it was just maintenance after maintenance, after maintenance. He didn't want to do that year after year. So he took it out and now he's going to pour a concrete path. [00:03:39] Speaker B: He's gonna pour concrete. He's not gonna build a deck at all. [00:03:41] Speaker A: No, no. [00:03:42] Speaker B: Yeah, that's. That's absolutely great. I was thinking, you know, if you reach the point where you've removed the decking and realized that the framing needs updating or replacing entirely, that is a great opportunity to reconsider all of your options. Maybe the deck, the way it was built in the place that it was built, the size and shape that it was, maybe any of those things you want to change. And at the time that you have to pull the frame out because it's failing, is the time to rethink all of the possibilities. [00:04:15] Speaker A: Right. [00:04:15] Speaker B: Of your deck. And so today we're going to be doing this very thing. We're going to be talking about rethinking all of the possibilities of the deck that you're considering building. [00:04:27] Speaker A: That's right. And just planning, planning out the deck. There's a lot that has to go on in your mind when you're planning your deck project, whether it's replacement or building new. [00:04:41] Speaker B: Yeah, that is, uh, that is right where we're going to start. And so the very first question, probably that you have to ask yourself if you've decided that my deck needs to be rebuilt, uh, the first question is, who's going to do it? Are you going to do it yourself, a DIY weekend warrior type project? Or are you going to pay someone to do it? Or are you going to cash in a favor from a contractor friend and have that person do it? And maybe you're just going to help to sort of make it easier to swallow. Yeah, whatever the. Whatever the thing is, this is the first decision you have to make. [00:05:23] Speaker A: Yeah. You're going to do it yourself. You're going to hire someone. So we should actually talk about. We should give some tips. We deal with contractors every day, day in and day out, and we actually have some pretty good insight on things that you need to think about. When hiring a contractor. So we should talk about that first. [00:05:41] Speaker B: Yeah, that's a great idea. The first thing is, where did you get the contractor's name and phone number? [00:05:48] Speaker A: Right. [00:05:48] Speaker B: If you got it from the Internet, it's not good enough. It's. It's a. That is a bad way to start. You want to use someone who has worked already for someone that you trust, and that person is. Is recommending them to you. [00:06:05] Speaker A: Well, that's a kind of a harsh thing to say. Is it just because someone's advertising on the Internet means that they're. [00:06:12] Speaker B: I didn't say. No, no, no. I didn't say because they're advertising on the Internet. Everyone advertises on the Internet. I'm saying that it makes more sense to choose someone who has. Has someone you know has already. This is where you start. You start by asking your friends and family and co workers that you trust. Have you done this project? Did you hire a contractor? What is the name of that contractor? [00:06:40] Speaker A: Well, not everybody knows somebody. [00:06:41] Speaker B: No, but that's where you start. That's shit. [00:06:44] Speaker A: Yeah, you could start there. [00:06:45] Speaker B: That's what I'm saying. You start there, and then if that does not reveal to you the person that you want to use, then step two. [00:06:53] Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, it boils down, in my experience, or in my opinion, to experience and their expertise. You know, hiring a contractor to do a specific job, you have to be picky. When you're going out and hiring someone to build your deck, you have to ask them, do you build decks or do you install windows? [00:07:18] Speaker B: You don't want to hire a window contractor to install your deck. [00:07:21] Speaker A: Do you do roofing? You know, there's a lot of things that people do. Contractors that are. They're good at many things, but maybe not great at building decks. So when it. In my opinion, you need to find someone who specializes in decks, especially if you've got a complicated deck that you want to build and look at their portfolio. Ask them for pictures. Ask them for references. Actually, call the references and ask questions. But if you assume that a contractor knows what they're doing and you assume that they fully understand what you want, what's going on in your head. And I've told this story before, but I had a contractor, a landscaping contractor, come over and I explained to him that I wanted this dry riverbed flowing down the side of my house where, you know, I've got this long patio in this huge patio with this long sloped walkway, all concrete or patio bricks, right. Pavers. And at the end of it. All the water comes down to the end of it and just flies right out into this area that used to be just bark mulch. And it would carry that bulk bark mulch right out to the street. And it was just kind of constantly be breaking it back in and blowing it. It was terrible. So I said, I want to put a dry riverbed in there, and I think that would look pretty cool and it would prevent all of this from going over. So I explained this whole thing to this guy. He said, yep, I got it. I know exactly what you want. [00:09:04] Speaker B: I'm reading your mind. [00:09:05] Speaker A: Yep. And I got home. [00:09:07] Speaker B: We're right there together. [00:09:08] Speaker A: It was done. Absolutely done. And I walked in and said, wow, that looks great. [00:09:16] Speaker B: When what you really meant was, that looks terrible. [00:09:20] Speaker A: I hated it. And to this day, I hate it. I haven't redone it yet because I paid this guy. I promised him it wasn't very much money, but I could not tell him that is nothing what I had in my head, and I'm not paying you, and you need to redo it. I, like, I couldn't do that, obviously. [00:09:39] Speaker B: Right. [00:09:40] Speaker A: So I paid him and sent him along his way. And guess what? It's fine for now, but it is not remotely what I had in my head. [00:09:47] Speaker B: Still there and not what you wanted. [00:09:49] Speaker A: No. So it's just one of the. It was a. To me, it was like one of those rare lessons that I learned that, because here's the other thing is, I don't hire a ton of contractors. I know a lot. [00:10:01] Speaker B: Right. [00:10:02] Speaker A: But I don't personally hire them. [00:10:04] Speaker B: Speaking of that, and this guy came. [00:10:06] Speaker A: As a reference, FYI. [00:10:08] Speaker B: Really? [00:10:08] Speaker A: Yeah. He worked for my. He did a bunch of work for my neighbor, and my neighbor's like, he's awesome. And he was awesome. He was, like, a really good guy to talk to. And we had the whole thing. I thought we had it figured out, but in what he had in his mind was not even close to what I had in mind. [00:10:27] Speaker B: Interesting that you, you are professional. You work for par lumber company. You deal with contractors all the time. This is another really good tip. If you don't have friends or family or coworkers that have worked with a contractor, decking contractor, you can run down to par lumber, and you can ask the sales people at par lumber. They have contractors coming and going all the time, and they can recommend a trustworthy, honest, hardworking, quality contractor. [00:10:56] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:10:57] Speaker B: Does that mean that he reads your mind? No. [00:10:59] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:11:00] Speaker B: So, you know, you still could have the same kind of a situation. It's very important that you get the message across very clearly. Sometimes that means drawing pictures or looking at pictures on Pinterest. [00:11:14] Speaker A: And keep in mind hiring a quality contractor that is good at their job and all of the above. Right. You could get that, but still not get what you want. [00:11:26] Speaker B: Right. [00:11:27] Speaker A: And like you said, look at pictures. But here's the other thing, is that contractor might be really good at Cedar decks, might be really good at them, but has no idea how to install composite decks. [00:11:40] Speaker B: Right? Sure, sure. [00:11:42] Speaker A: Epay or hardwood decks. So I think it's also very important to understand the experience and expertise of that contractor. Make sure that you're getting pictures. You know, this is exactly what I want, especially if you know exactly what you want. So I've had, you know, I've had bad experiences where I've recommended people, two people, right. [00:12:11] Speaker B: And it didn't turn out for well. [00:12:12] Speaker A: And they get three bids, you know, they go out and do what everybody tells them to do. Get three bids and then choose the one in the middle. Everybody wants to do that. And I don't disagree with that. You should get multiple bids. Yeah, but don't choose your contractor based off the bid because the number is just a number. Right. It doesn't mean much of anything. It means you're going to get what they're charging. [00:12:35] Speaker B: Right. [00:12:35] Speaker A: And that. That doesn't necessarily mean it's what you want or that. [00:12:40] Speaker B: Yeah, it doesn't mean it's gonna look the way you want it to look or do what you want it to do or last the way you want it to last. I mean, all of those questions are absolutely pertinent. [00:12:50] Speaker A: So making sure that you know what you're getting and then following through on those references. Ask questions, you know, and you can ask questions about their license. That's the number one thing you want to know. They need to be licensed, bonded and insured. Top priority. You want to make sure that you're reading reviews. You know, go out like, and look at things like Yelp and Google and Better Business Bureau. And I'm going to say this, I'm one of those people that goes to the negative reviews, right? [00:13:21] Speaker B: You go to ones, the lowest reviews. [00:13:23] Speaker A: I do. [00:13:23] Speaker B: I do ones and twos. [00:13:25] Speaker A: I always go to the negatives and I filter through and I read all of them. And you could tell who is being vindictive. Yes. Being a jerk and being honest. And they had a bad experience for some reason and maybe the contractor, whatever, for whatever made that person mad. And they're on there just leaving a one star review. So I like to read between the lines a little bit. And I think the best way to do that is to look at the negative reviews. If there's a lot of negative reviews, like, man, this person stole my money. [00:14:06] Speaker B: Right? [00:14:06] Speaker A: Yeah, this person, this contractor. You know, the quality was terrible with pictures. You know what I mean? Look at the reviews with an open mind. I never trust five star reviews. You look at these five star reviews, I don't know you, there's so many things, you know what I mean? Like you can go out and buy reviews these days on the Internet. [00:14:31] Speaker B: Sure. [00:14:32] Speaker A: So I mean, ask for references and call them. Physically call the people. I can't say that enough. [00:14:38] Speaker B: Right. I agree with you. You're right. Um, so another indicator, this is the last thing I'll say about another indicator is years in the business. If you, you know, if someone that is been in the business for a shorter period of time, maybe, you know, has only been doing contracting for the, the last five years, they probably, I'm not saying that they're not going to be good, but they have seen fewer scenarios, which makes them a little less qualified to be everything for what you need them to be. [00:15:10] Speaker A: Right. [00:15:10] Speaker B: I mean, the more years they've been doing it, the more they've seen, the more solution oriented they probably are. And here's something else they are. See, they are doing a better job at seeing the things that you can't see ahead of a project. Pitfalls and worst case scenarios. [00:15:31] Speaker A: Right. [00:15:31] Speaker B: So you'll, you're less likely to end up in a very difficult situation with someone who's been doing it for a long time. [00:15:39] Speaker A: Well, and you make another good point, because when you're talking about somebody that's experienced, it probably also depends on your project. If you're building a twelve by twelve deck on the back of your house, 2ft off the ground with a set of small stairs. [00:15:59] Speaker B: Yep. [00:15:59] Speaker A: That's a little different than a 30 by 60 deck, 20ft off the ground on a big sloped lot. [00:16:09] Speaker B: Right. [00:16:09] Speaker A: With a hot tub. You know, there's differences in your projects and hiring people. I actually know a guy, I'm working with a contractor right now who, his client hired a crew, a landscaping crew, to build some retaining walls in his backyard for a pool. And the slope of this lot is unbelievable. I mean, unbelievable. And just, just so you know, this project, my contractor tells me he's already $3 million into the backyard. [00:16:50] Speaker B: Oh my goodness. [00:16:52] Speaker A: Mostly because the guys that the homeowner hired, they came out, they just started bringing in machinery, moving dirt in the, in the slope from the top of the top right out of the bottom grade of the house down to the bottom of the hill is probably 30ft, which is, it needs to be engineered. It needs to have proper grading, proper steel, concrete, water management. You know what I mean? So these guys were using like, timbers and like stacking every 2ft, trying to tear us up this huge hill and build this guy a backyard flat enough to put a pool in. And it had turned into a giant disaster. And now he's almost $3 million into this backyard. [00:17:47] Speaker B: I can't even imagine. [00:17:48] Speaker A: That is unbelievable. [00:17:50] Speaker B: Crazy. [00:17:51] Speaker A: Yeah. So my contractor that, that I know he's going through it fixing all of these problems, but he's bringing in hundreds of truckloads of gravel. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. So, like, hiring the right person for your job, you know, and I hear this all the time from people who, you give them a price on something, like material wise. I mean, just in our business come, somebody walks in the door and they say, I want this, you know, 1500 square foot deck terraced, three stories, levels with stairs over here and, you know, and all this cable railing and all this stuff. And they get that $80,000 price and like, oh my goodness, that was ten times what I thought it would be. [00:18:36] Speaker B: Right. [00:18:36] Speaker A: You know, but just going after contractor after contractor after contractor, trying to find someone who's just says, yeah, I can do that for that price. That's a bad idea. [00:18:48] Speaker B: Bad idea. [00:18:48] Speaker A: You're just, you're literally going through contractors trying to find the answer, right. That you like. [00:18:55] Speaker B: Right. And when you find the one that looks best for you, that doesn't make it. That doesn't make it legit. [00:19:02] Speaker A: No, 100%, unfortunately. Yeah. And, you know, so that's the next thing on the list is breaking down the costs. You know, you want to estimate how much you think it's going to cost. Labors, materials, permits, additional fees, any, any sort of can of worms that you might break yourself into. I know every diy project I've ever done has been a can of worms, it seems. And you budget $1,000 for this project and you're $2,000 in and you're still finding worms. [00:19:33] Speaker B: Everyone, every project. [00:19:35] Speaker A: Well, almost. I said almost. It feels like it. I swear. [00:19:39] Speaker B: Okay. I mean, I can get how it could feel like it, but there's definitely, as you go along, you find out that the earlier projects that you tackled were much more riddled with cans of worms than the most recent projects. [00:19:54] Speaker A: You've, I think it's because from experience and understanding of knowing. [00:19:58] Speaker B: Right. And you do get better and it does get easier. [00:20:01] Speaker A: What to expect. [00:20:02] Speaker B: Yeah. I mean, I'm not, we're not trying to scare everybody off of diying projects or, or, you know, tackling projects at all. [00:20:11] Speaker A: Right. [00:20:12] Speaker B: Right. Certainly these are things that mistakes that you make one time or two times and then, you know, as you move on, you get better. [00:20:18] Speaker A: Yeah. Next one on the list is to, with your contractor that you're interviewing, talk about the scope of work. Make sure that it's clearly defined on paper. Too many times I have heard of people getting burned where they talk about the project. They might give them a couple pictures. The contractor says, yeah, no problem, I can do it. Exactly what you want. [00:20:43] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:20:44] Speaker A: And then they don't get it on paper. Then you get the bill, and then at the end of the job the bill has tripled because they didn't include everything that you thought was going to be in that scope. In that scope. And again, this goes back to the complication or the complicated nature of your project. If it's a twelve by twelve deck versus, you know, a slope, 20 foot, whatever, that's what, that's what makes the difference there. [00:21:13] Speaker B: Timeline. Most important thing. I mean, one of the very most important things, there is a possibility that you determine the start of the project and you determine what you think will be the end of the project. And both of you agree later that it needs to be extended. It's going to take longer. There are things that you couldn't have thought about ahead of time as long as you're both agreeing on it. But you do need to have a start and a stop, an end time that you're working towards you. I'll tell you what, it's very easy to be working with somebody that you trust and just say, yeah, well, you know, whatever, you do a great job, just get it done. When you get it done. Contractors oftentimes will find themselves in the middle of multiple jobs. And every job has its most important situation. Right. Every job has those emergency situations. And so if your job is kind of a, it's fine, you know, whenever it's going to get moved to the bottom of the priority list. [00:22:17] Speaker A: Potentially. [00:22:17] Speaker B: Yeah, potentially. Uh, you know, with your, with the, the jobs that the contractor is doing. The contractor is trying to do right by everyone and sometimes the squeaky wheel gets the grease. [00:22:30] Speaker A: Yeah, I would agree with that. Yeah. You have situations where just like you said, if somebody's barking louder, all of a sudden the contractors in the subcontractors don't show up at your job. They're showing up at the job site over there. And then if you're trying to have a birthday party or a graduation party or something on your deck at the end of summer and it's September. Yeah, it just, it happens. [00:22:54] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:22:55] Speaker A: So defining a clear timeline. That's a good tip. Next one on the list is the payment schedule. These are some things that are kind of in the gray area sometimes, and people don't talk to them, talk about them. Good contractor will. Good contractors will tell you upfront what they expect from you as far as payments go. And on complicated projects that take multiple steps in multiple special orders, you may be asked to pay more upfront to cover special order material costs, because these contractors are, they're getting the bill for it. They are 100% getting the bill for it if they go out and place an order for $10,000 worth of decking, because you say that's what you want and it's special order, and then two weeks later, you're like, you know, I actually don't want that color. I want this color. Well, that contractor is getting burned. [00:23:51] Speaker B: Well, that, that customers probably getting burned, too. [00:23:55] Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, that's. But that's. That's where problems happen, right? Right. Yeah. Having. If the contractor explains to you every aspect of the payment schedule and what is expected of you, you need to know what's expected of, of that contractor. And I'm just saying that because, like, one of the ones down, further down the list here that we can jump on right now is conflict resolution. You know, working through problems and biggest problems that come up change orders. If you say, well, I don't like that, I want this. Every time you say that, it's costing you money, and you need to understand that. And if the contractor doesn't specifically lay out change orders to you ahead of time, you may just be getting a little bank of them. He might just save them up in his head at the end of the job, add a $1,000 or $5,000 to the job, because every time they have to do something twice, they charge you, twice, they're charging you, it's costing you money. [00:24:57] Speaker B: Right. [00:24:58] Speaker A: So, I mean, it's just an important thing in the very beginning to talk about these things up front. Ask that question what our change orders look like. [00:25:08] Speaker B: Sure. [00:25:08] Speaker A: What happens if this sink that you say that I'm gonna love shows up from my kitchen remodel and it's terrible and it doesn't fit or whatever. How do we resolve that. That's not a bad question to ask. [00:25:24] Speaker B: No, I agree with that. Warranties specify warranties on materials and workmanship. You're going to want to know ahead of time, if you're buying a product like Trex decking or timber tech decking, what is the warranty and how will we be enforcing that warranty if something happens to go on? Or maybe they're talking about warranties. Warranting the work that's being done by the contractor. The contractor a lot of times will have one year, like a one year thing. The customer, I mean, this is speaking in generalities. If a contractor builds a house, I, in many of the contractors I've talked to said I'm on the hook for one year. At the end of one year, I fix the very last thing that needs to be fixed, and then I'm out. Does that sound like something you've, that you've heard? [00:26:12] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah, I've heard that. [00:26:13] Speaker B: Yeah. So that's something you want to know ahead of time. How long can I come back to you and get things that have a defect in workmanship or just aren't lasting the way they should? How long until I can no longer come to you about with these things and have that in writing? [00:26:30] Speaker A: Yeah. And a lot of that really boils down to the contractor's reputation. You know, you call the contract contractor and say, hey, I demand a warranty because this product failed after 18 months, they probably don't have any legal obligation to come fix it for you. [00:26:48] Speaker B: Right. [00:26:49] Speaker A: You know, barring you taking them to court, which is a huge pain. [00:26:54] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:26:55] Speaker A: And costs money and you may or may not win. So talking about that up front, that's a good, that's a good tip. Another thing that you can talk to people about when you're getting reviews and getting. [00:27:12] Speaker B: Referrals. [00:27:13] Speaker A: Referrals. Thank you. Ask the referrals about the contractors responsiveness. Contractors get busy and maybe shouldn't be judged at the very beginning of the project because they're getting bombarded with people that just want bids. They show up to your job, they know that you are trying to get the lowest price possible. They're trying to give you a bid, but they're not. You have to understand that their time is money. And if they're showing up to your job and you're running them through the wringer for an hour on your job site and then expecting them to put hours and hours into giving you a bid for a complicated project with no obligation to buy. Right. That's, that takes them a lot of time and effort to give you a bid. And if you don't maybe get a call back immediately. You know, I wouldn't necessarily judge a contractor on that. I would call their referral and talk to them. After you've given that contractor the, the job, how did they respond when you called them? Did they call you back? If they said they were going to be there at a specific time, where did they show up on time? And I don't know, I just have a problem. I see it all the time. People just, they just want bids, you know, and sometimes depending on your project, like I keep saying, you know, the twelve by twelve deck, they could probably walk out there and say, yeah, it's two, $200 a square foot for a deck, tear out, redo new, whatever you want, $200 square foot, and they can say, okay, twelve by twelve, that's okay. This is how much it's going to be. [00:29:00] Speaker B: But, but that's shooting from the hip. [00:29:02] Speaker A: Right. Right. It's not necessarily somebody. And that's kind of what some contractors do is they'll give you an estimate. [00:29:09] Speaker B: Right. To get to the next step. [00:29:10] Speaker A: Right. [00:29:11] Speaker B: Am I where they want me to be? Are they serious about moving forward? And then you can have that conversation. [00:29:17] Speaker A: Well, because how many times has someone come, walked in the door and you've spent two, 3 hours on a bid for them for a large deck project only for them to go, whoa. Right. [00:29:29] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:29:29] Speaker A: Oh, that's how much? [00:29:30] Speaker B: Three times the amount of money. Yeah. [00:29:33] Speaker A: I thought this was going to cost me five grand. [00:29:35] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:29:36] Speaker A: And you gave him the bid for 30. It's, I have done that in my 20 years of par lumber. I've done that at least 100 times. And then they walk it back or they cancel it altogether. So anyway, next one on the list, clear explanations. They should be able, a good contractor should be able to give you clear explanations of the process of the materials that they're using and the potential issues that you could run into early on in the job. Right. Like I had a contractor come to me and they got a call from somebody that came out and they couldn't get someone to replace this deck for them. But it was in the west slope in Portland, huge, huge cliffs. And the deck was already like 30ft off the ground. [00:30:36] Speaker B: Wow. [00:30:37] Speaker A: And past the deck was a straight down, down to nothing land, you know, in through the woods. So they physically could not get ladders. How are you going to build a deck 30ft off the ground if you can't even put a ladder on the ground? [00:30:54] Speaker B: Right? Right. [00:30:55] Speaker A: They had to bring in all of this special rigging and cranes and stuff just to get material to the back and then to tear the old one off. So these people were truly shocked when they got the bid for this job to just rip the old deck off and put a new one on that was rotting off their house. They physically couldn't walk out on it. And because it was up in the slope, you know, they thought because, you know, they were in this rich neighborhood that people were just giving them high bids. But my contractor that I knew that I worked with had to explain it to them every aspect. Hey, look, to get this old deck off, I got to have a crane out here with a platform and guys with chainsaws cutting this deck into tiny pieces and hauling it out the sides and around wearing fall protection. And then to get the new materials back, he had to explain the whole thing to them so they really understood why this new deck was going to cost them $200,000, you know what I'm saying? So if you hire a good contractor, there should be very clear explanations of the process for your project. [00:32:06] Speaker B: The next thing very important to consider, of course, is the permits that you will need to build this deck or rebuild or repair whatever it is that you're doing. Permits are required, especially for like the one you're talking about. Can you imagine tackling a project like that with no permits? [00:32:25] Speaker A: Absolutely. [00:32:25] Speaker B: I mean, it would required, it would be, it would be a disaster because the city or the county comes out and they have, there, there's restrictions and then there's rules and procedures for doing all of this stuff and code that you have to meet. And if it, if you don't meet code and you don't permit it and you don't pass, you may not be able to sell your house, you may be stuck with it. It could end up getting leaned and then, you know, it can really impede progress in your life. So the jurisdictions that are out there is very important that they are included in these processes. At the very beginning, contractor will know what needs to be permitted and what doesn't, what can be done and what can't. He'll have a, he or she will have a great idea about codes and guidelines and all of that. So that's a conversation you'll need to have right, right at the front. [00:33:18] Speaker A: Yeah. Asking a contractor about codes and permits and jurisdictions in your area, you know, that's another one that there are certain areas, you know, even in, like Portland and where we are out in the suburbs and different areas Lake Oswego. There are codes that are different at each location. And working in certain places, you can only work during certain times. You know, working in a neighborhood that is an HOA, hiring a contractor that is familiar with that procedure and how to get things done correctly to guide you in the right direction so that you're not spending a bunch of money on something, getting to a point and having somebody show up at your door and go, what are you doing? You can't do that. [00:34:05] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:34:06] Speaker A: You know, you might be $50,000 into a project and have somebody put a red tag on it. So ask those questions. Another thing you can ask, referrals. This is another good question for referrals is on site supervision. When you're hiring a general contractor, for example, they might not necessarily be on, the contractor might not be on your site every day. They might be, they might have a foreman. They might have a superintendent. They might have subcontractors that show up at certain times. And if you need to ask, are you using subcontractors or are you doing this all by yourself? Is it you and a couple people with you who is going to be on my site? If it doesn't matter to you, it doesn't matter to you. But asking them, finding out their qualifications and finding out who is overseeing, because a good contractor might be a phenomenal carpenter, but if they sub it out to somebody who's not, and they're doing your job. [00:35:13] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:35:15] Speaker A: How many times have you heard that? [00:35:17] Speaker B: Right? Yeah, I, obviously, if you're, if you are staying in tune with the project and the progression of the project and you know what you're seeing that's happening and you're wanting to stay up on that, you will want to know who's going to be on the job site and who's not and what is their expertise. And have you been working with them for a while? You know, usually a contractor will have subs that they use all the time, very regularly, and they have relationships with those subs that come out to the job and they're talking to them, they're saying, hey, how was the conditions at the job today? Were you able to get everything done? What did you leave undone? What does it look like now? You know, so and so is going to be out there next? Is it ready for them? All of that stuff they're communicating. Even though the contractor's not standing on your job site, he knows what's going on because he's talking to all the guys that are coming and going from there. So it, it helps the homeowner to know who's coming and who's going, and all of that based on communication with the contractor. [00:36:25] Speaker A: Next one on the list, Tony, is material options. A good contractor should be able to talk about all the materials that they want to use on your job. You know, some contractors will only deal with one product. They'll show up to your job or to your house and say, well, I only do timber tech. It's all I use. And it might be for other reasons. It might not be because they don't like tracks or they don't like fiber on. It might be because they get a rebate. [00:36:56] Speaker B: Sure. [00:36:56] Speaker A: You know, and there's nothing wrong with that. Contractors work with certain products. If they're working with a product that's good for you, then it is what it is. But you have to ask that question. If there's a certain product that you want, make sure that they are familiar with it. And one thing that I would say, I would caution people, because this happens all the time, too, is I'll get a call from a contractor that says, hey, have you ever heard of blah, blah, blah, you know, XYZ decking? And there are, I'm not even exaggerating. There's probably over 200 different composite decking products manufacturers in the US alone. There are tons of different products, options, colors, you name it. And I see it all the time where people will be watching a commercial or something on this whole house, you know, or HGTV, and like, yeah, I want that. [00:37:59] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:38:00] Speaker A: Well, keep in mind, it might not even be available in your area. [00:38:02] Speaker B: It might not be available on the west coast. [00:38:04] Speaker A: Right. [00:38:05] Speaker B: That might be an east coast product. [00:38:07] Speaker A: It happens time more than you know. [00:38:09] Speaker B: Yellow wood. [00:38:10] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:38:10] Speaker B: Have you heard of that? Uh, uh, yeah, there's a product called yellow wood, very common on the east coast. Um, but not something that we have here. [00:38:18] Speaker A: Oh, is it like a building material? [00:38:19] Speaker B: Construction treated material. Oh, okay. But I think it's pine. Oh, yeah, like a treated pine material. [00:38:24] Speaker A: We don't have that here. [00:38:25] Speaker B: Yellow wood. Yeah, it's the, that's the brand name of the product. Yeah, we don't have that here. [00:38:30] Speaker A: Yeah, I'm sure it's a great product. [00:38:31] Speaker B: It just. [00:38:32] Speaker A: We can't source it. And sometimes people will get. They'll fall into these traps where they'll. They'll see it, they'll make a decision. They. That's what I want. And they, they go down and they try to find a contractor that, that installs it or can even get it, and you might be paying a premium for something because they have to special order it from South Carolina and put it on a truck to get here. That might take two weeks, and then you get it. They need four more pieces now, whatever. Now you're waiting another two weeks, and then you've got ten pieces left over and there's no return on that because, of course, it's special order and you're not going to drive it back to South Carolina. [00:39:17] Speaker B: Right. [00:39:17] Speaker A: It's just the way it is. [00:39:19] Speaker B: Yep. [00:39:19] Speaker A: So having those discussions with a contractor, doing research, coming into par. Lumber, we've got all the deck manufacturers, and we can tell you which ones are good, which ones have good warranties, the colors that you like, and the pricing for all of them. We can give you all that information so you can be armed with that information when you call a contractor, because I'll tell you what, Trex makes a great product, Timbertech makes a great product. Azek, they all make really good products. So just make sure you know what you're getting into. [00:39:54] Speaker B: Yep, absolutely. It's a great tip. [00:39:58] Speaker A: Next one. We kind of talked about this quality assurance. It's kind of like the warranty. Make sure that your contractors using the right products for your area. If you're building a deck, say, on the ocean, you want to make sure that they're using pressure treated lumber and stainless steel fasteners and stainless steel hardware. I actually. We rented a house. We did an Airbnb at a house on the ocean many years ago, me and a group of guys for a bachelor party. It's a big house, big outdoor deck, and beautiful. And we were all hanging out on the deck, and it was like this odd pattern, you know, like the deck was built was kind of rectangular, but the decking kind of was at an angle. And they installed the joists for that deck, 24 inches on center, which, if you know anything about decking, composite decking, you can't do that, right? It's supposed to be 16 at minimum. However, this material was at an angle. Is that a 45? Trying to make it look cool, right? Like this houndstooth look. And because it was an angle, now, all of a sudden the joists were 24 on center at an angle. They were probably more like 30 inches on center. And we were walking out of that thing, and between every single joist, that deck would bow. [00:41:13] Speaker B: You could feel the deflection. Huh? [00:41:15] Speaker A: On the very first day, we were all hanging out there, and one guy fell right through the deck. [00:41:18] Speaker B: Oh, no. [00:41:19] Speaker A: Yeah, it was only about 4ft off the ground, but he fell right through. Scraped himself all up. [00:41:24] Speaker B: Yikes. [00:41:25] Speaker A: It was bad news. [00:41:26] Speaker B: You imagine if that was a two story deck? [00:41:28] Speaker A: Oh, yeah, 100%. And the other thing. So I got to inquiring, you know, I got to looking around, climbed under that thing. It was, every single fastener was rusted solid. They used the wrong nails, the wrong fasteners. Everything about it was wrong. [00:41:43] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:41:43] Speaker A: So getting that quality assurance, knowing that your contractor knows what they're doing, because you can't just build a deck out of whatever you want, you know? [00:41:55] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:41:55] Speaker A: Talk about that all day. [00:41:56] Speaker B: Yeah. So as we get to the bottom of the list of things that you want to make sure you talk to your contractor about, you want to talk about the end of the project as well. Site cleanup. Confirm that your project is going to look exactly as it did prior to the project, starting with the exception, of course, of the brand new, beautiful deck that has been built, but that they're going to go around and clean up all the extra materials, fix any parts of the dirt or landscaping that they've mused up in order to make this happen, and that you are on the same page about what the site is going to look like when the project is completely done. [00:42:38] Speaker A: Yeah. How many times have you gotten a roof redone on your house over the years? You know, probably a couple times. [00:42:45] Speaker B: Sure. [00:42:46] Speaker A: And you for years will walk around and pick up nails and those little plastic strips off the back of the shingles. [00:42:52] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:42:52] Speaker A: And just cut offs everywhere. I mean, it's happened to me because the contractor that I hired, they throw them. [00:42:59] Speaker B: They just throw them wherever they go. [00:43:01] Speaker A: It was the cheapest bid. [00:43:02] Speaker B: And they don't walk around and pick it up after. [00:43:03] Speaker A: Yep. And that's. That's what happens. [00:43:05] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:43:06] Speaker A: You know, you're getting a deck built. They're going to be cutting a lot of material, sawdust going everywhere. [00:43:11] Speaker B: And maybe you choose not to have them clean it up because maybe it costs more money to have them do it and you'd rather save the money. Fine. Just know it going in. [00:43:22] Speaker A: Yeah. Know what you're getting yourself know what. [00:43:23] Speaker B: You'Re getting yourself into? If you choose to be the cleanup person at the end of the project, great. As long as you're not being charged and you're saving that money. That's, that's actually a very good decision. [00:43:35] Speaker A: Yeah. Well, Tony, you know, this is a really, really good list of things that we have here. I think we should just leave it at that. [00:43:42] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:43:42] Speaker A: The show's getting kind of long. I think maybe stay tuned for a part two. Yeah. [00:43:47] Speaker B: Part two, how to plan your next deck project. [00:43:52] Speaker A: Your next DIy deck project. [00:43:55] Speaker B: Absolutely. I love it. This is a great tip. Thank you so much for listening. And we hope you got something super helpful out of this show today. [00:44:03] Speaker A: Yeah, make sure you hit that subscribe button on the old channel here. We upload podcasts weekly. If you've got any questions or comments, you can email us. We're weekend warriors.com. we check those emails every day. So if you got questions, we'll try to answer them to the best of our ability. And yeah, thanks so much for listening. We'll catch you next time. [00:44:26] Speaker B: Have a great week.