Lumberyard Lingo

[00:00:04] Speaker A: Welcome to the Weeknd warriors home improvement show, built by bar lumber. When it comes to big or small projects around the home, Tony and Cory have got the know how and the answers to make your life just a bit easier. Here they are, your weekend warriors, Tony and Cory. [00:00:25] Speaker B: Hey, welcome to the Weekend warriors home improvement show, built by par lumber. I'm Cory Valdez. [00:00:30] Speaker C: I'm Tony Cookston. [00:00:32] Speaker B: Thanks for tuning in with us today. We've got another great show lined up for you today. Tony and I are going to get back on the subject of lingo. We've been working for par lumber company for a combined 30, 40 years, something like that. 50, 50 years. Long time. [00:00:49] Speaker C: Yeah, a long time. [00:00:50] Speaker B: And we take for granted what we do because we do it every day, and we show up, we use language, and we use words and descriptions of things that we just talk about every day. And we like to share that with our listeners because, you know, if you're ever wanting to walk into a lumberyard and ask for something, you know, you want to call it the right thing. Right. You don't want to be going in there saying, can I get some of those thingamajiggers that you build the stuff with? [00:01:20] Speaker C: Yeah. Yeah. [00:01:21] Speaker B: So, yeah, we're going to share that with you today. [00:01:24] Speaker C: Yeah, I'm pretty excited about it. Obviously, it's what we do all the time, and so it comes second nature to us. But I think oftentimes we're standing talking to a customer at work, and we're explaining something, and they just sort of glaze over a little bit, like, I don't really know what you're talking about. [00:01:43] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:01:43] Speaker C: And so we will, of course, take the time to explain it, but this is an opportunity for us to just get some of those terms out so you've heard it, and it will make it easier for you to identify with the next time you're in a lumberyard making a purchase for your project. [00:01:57] Speaker B: Yeah, well, and it helps with mistakes, too, because, you know, if you don't know what your. You know, what it is in your head, maybe, and then you walk in and you tell the person behind the front counter, you say, I want this. Well, what they. What you think it's called and what they think it's called might be different, and those lines get crossed, and then you get a big pile of this material delivered to your job site, and you're like, what is this? Yeah, this is definitely remotely what I wanted. [00:02:25] Speaker C: Absolutely. Yeah. So you'll have an opportunity to hear those details. Those details that are the descriptors of the product that you're looking for. There's a lot of the same stuff out there. If I walked up to you, Corey, and I said, hey, I need a four by two. I need a four by two. [00:02:41] Speaker B: There's a four by two. [00:02:42] Speaker C: There's a lot of things about that that you don't know the answer to. Is it treated? Is it not treated? Is it dry? Is it green? Is it cedar fir? Is it hemlock? Is it finish, interior finish, exterior finish? How long is it? Is it finger jointed and primed? You know, all of those things. There's a lot of about a two by four or four by two that you need to have that information if you're going to get what you want. So the first thing Corey would say to me is, well, what are you using it for? [00:03:14] Speaker B: Yeah, that is the first thing I would say. [00:03:15] Speaker C: I know. And so then we start to get to the end result. Right. When we know what you're using it for, we know what the stuff that we have is intended for. And it makes it easier to make sure you walk out the store with the thing that you want. [00:03:29] Speaker B: Yep. [00:03:30] Speaker C: And if all else fails, then we just walk you out to the product and take a look at it. And when you see it, you go, yeah, that. [00:03:37] Speaker B: Walk out. Go, I want that. [00:03:38] Speaker C: Yep, I'll take that right there. And there's nothing wrong with that either. It's a really good idea. Honestly. If you're going to buy materials that you haven't maybe bought before and you're imagining the project in your mind, then the best thing is just go out and take a look at it. Make sure that it's the quality you want it to be, that it's the size you want it to be, that it's the color you want it to be. And all of those things, once you've seen it, then you know it's what you want or not what you want. [00:04:05] Speaker B: Yeah. You know, I get into this all the time with people about especially quality. You know, they. They'll call up and say, I want this, you know, random product that might be the quality of that random product is not very good. And they'll say, I want the good ones. [00:04:22] Speaker C: Right, of course. [00:04:23] Speaker B: But of course, that product doesn't come in good ones. If you want the good ones, you gotta step up to a different product. [00:04:29] Speaker C: Right? Absolutely. [00:04:30] Speaker B: But they want the better product at the regular price. It's just not how that works. [00:04:36] Speaker C: Another thing that we run into is they get, some of our customers get different terminologies mixed up. Like, for example, when you talk about cedar, which people use outside because of its properties on the outside to be used outside. There's a lot of times you'll find clear cedar or you'll find tight knot cedar. Customers sometimes hear the terms clear and tight knot, and then they'll just come in and say, I need to get a piece of clear, tight knot. You know, and then you're thinking, well, do you want clear or do you want tight knot? And if you don't know the difference, let's talk about that. Yeah, so that's, you know, those types of things, those little nuances and the descriptors are very important. [00:05:19] Speaker B: Well, let's jump right into it. You know, we kind of, we created a list here, and our list starts with dimensional lumber. There's a lot like, we've already kind of touched on some of those things with dimensional lumber. And there's a lot there. You know, your standards, your standard framing lumber, two by four by six by eight by. That's pretty common here in the Pacific Northwest. Six by and eight by. You're not going to find that typically in, say, the midwest or the east coast. I remember when I first moved to Oregon 15 years ago, and I saw a six by twelve for the first time, and I said, good lord, what is that? [00:06:00] Speaker C: That's a tree. [00:06:01] Speaker B: Yeah. You know, we didn't have things like that back in Michigan. We would double and triple two by material, two by ten, two by twelve, and just gang it up, stack them together, and you come out here and that's pretty common occurrence. Four by eight, four by ten, six by six, six by eight. We just didn't have things like that, you know, framing material. There's a lot of differences between framing material. Like you said earlier, Tony, green or dry. There's the term s dry. There's a term KD. A lot of these terms are thrown around and people don't really understand them. [00:06:39] Speaker C: Right. [00:06:39] Speaker B: Let's talk a little bit about moisture content before we get into the other aspects of dimensional lumber. Moisture content is how much moisture is in the piece of wood as it. [00:06:51] Speaker C: Sits in the yard ready for sale. [00:06:54] Speaker B: Well, at the time of manufacturing. [00:06:56] Speaker C: Okay. So as when they ship it before, it's here. Okay. [00:06:58] Speaker B: So green Douglas fir, is it? Well, it was pretty common. It's growing more or less common because of everybody's transitioning to dry material here. But for the longest time, green Doug fir was like the dominant two by four, two by six framing material. [00:07:22] Speaker C: And really, when they say green, not green in color, but green, meaning that it hasn't been altered. The moisture content hasn't been altered in any way. [00:07:31] Speaker B: They actually, when they cut the logs, they stack the logs, they actually put sprinklers on them and they water them to keep them wet so they don't turn. [00:07:41] Speaker C: You know, wood does those things. When it dries out, it starts twisting. Turns, yeah. Splits and checks. [00:07:47] Speaker B: And then they mill it wet and they deliver it wet, and it sits in our yard wet, and it comes to your job site wet. And I've actually heard people call it pond dried. [00:07:58] Speaker C: They had dried it in the pond. [00:07:59] Speaker B: Dried it in the pond. But, you know, a lot of people, the old time framers, they used to really like green fur because it nailed. [00:08:08] Speaker C: Really easy and it stayed straight. [00:08:10] Speaker B: And it stayed straight until you nailed it in place, and then it was, the whole structure would dry together and you wouldn't get a ton of bows and things like that. And they just really liked it. [00:08:21] Speaker C: Yeah. But the downside to it is, of course, you get into a confined space and then it tends to grow mold and mildew because it's wet. [00:08:29] Speaker B: True. [00:08:29] Speaker C: And so to avoid the mold and mildew growth, of course, we started drying it and our recommendations increased from there. We actually have to take a quick break. When we come back, more lumberyard lingo with Tony and Corey, your weekend warriors. Don't go away. [00:09:10] Speaker A: The Weeknd warriors home improvement show, built by Parl Humbert. Now here's Tony and Corey. [00:09:21] Speaker B: Hey, welcome back to the weekend warriors home improvement show. Thanks for sticking around. Today we're talking about lumberyard lingo, and before the break, we were talking about moisture content in lumber, two by four, two by six, two by eight dimensional lumber. And moisture content is, again, it's how much moisture is in the material when it's shipped from the mill. And green Doug fir, which is really common here or. Yeah, it's really common. Real. Mostly here in the midwest, you're going to use, you know, SPF or southern yellow pine. It's just different. But here it's Green Doug fir. You'll see that signified on the piece of lumber as GDF. The lumber stamp will say GDF, meaning green Doug fir. It doesn't mean the color green. It means that the material itself is wet green. Well, like we said before, putting that material together, framing a house with it, you're supposed to let that dry out to a certain moisture content before you put insulation and pour before you put sheetrock. But unfortunately, it takes a really long time to do that. I mean, you're supposed to run like you. I'd walk into job sites that were framed with green dug fur, and they have the furnace installed and the exterior sided. The roof's on, it's sealed up, but they're running the furnace and just running the furnace for, like, a week straight. [00:10:44] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:10:45] Speaker B: Trying to dry that down. And then you're supposed to walk around with a moisture meter and check to make sure that the lumber is below a certain moisture content. So when you cover it up, it doesn't just turn into mold. So there's two problems with that. A, it's really wet in Oregon for, you know, majority of the year, and it's really hard to dry out lumber when it's really wet outside. Yes. Running the furnace inside will help, and putting big fans everywhere will help, but it still takes a really long time. So people more and more now are changing over to dry lumber. And when you're talking about dry lumber, it is. It has to be below a moisture. [00:11:25] Speaker C: Content of 19%, I think. [00:11:27] Speaker B: Yep, 19. I think you're right. 19% when it's shipped from the mill. And there's several ways to dry lumber. Just calling it dry doesn't tell you the whole story. You can kiln dry lumber. You can air dry it. They actually have a microwave process that microwaves it. There's all kinds of different processes for drying lumber, but they're signified by the stamp and KD. Everybody's pretty familiar with the term kiln dried. They take the material, they put it in stacks, and they roll it into these gigantic bus. Bus sized kilns and let it sit for however long a day or whatever to suck all that moisture out and kiln dry the lumber. And when it does that, it's heat treated. And it actually physically closes the cell in the wood fiber, and it doesn't allow it to suck up more moisture into it. So a lot of times we get this question, because people will come to our lumber yard and see that our dry lumber is outside. Is outside, and it's in the rain. It's getting rained on. [00:12:37] Speaker C: Why would you do that? Why would you put your dry lumber outside in the rain? [00:12:41] Speaker B: And it's because of that. When it's kiln dried, it cannot soak up the moisture content like it had. It might be wet on the surface, but when you nail it in place and you put it up, within a day or two, it will be right back down to the moisture content below what you need. [00:12:57] Speaker C: Right. [00:12:57] Speaker B: For. For dry lumber. So that is the case. I mean, we. We don't have 5000 acres of covered space to keep dry lumber inside. And that's. That's just the reality. [00:13:09] Speaker C: Right. That's. And that's dry in a kiln. Right. That's why that is noted. KD or HT for heat treated. But then sometimes you'll see s dry. S dry. Tell us about that and how that's different. [00:13:22] Speaker B: S dry is kind of one of those funny things, too, that you're. That I always talk to people about. And there's a lot of misconceptions about s dry lumber and the way the reason they call it s dry, it actually, the s stands for surfaced, not surface. Some people think that the s dry means that it's just dry on the surface. So, like, they. They air dried it just on the surface. That's not what that means. S dry means that it was surfaced dry. So that means that they ran it through some sort of drying process, typically kiln. Most of, I think all of the lumber that we sell is kiln dried. Then it's ran through the surfacing machine that surfaces it down to the sizes that you and I both know. [00:14:12] Speaker C: One and a half by three and a half into five. [00:14:14] Speaker B: Two by four is an inch and a half by five. Two and three and a half, inch. [00:14:17] Speaker C: And a half by five and a half nominal sizes. [00:14:20] Speaker B: Correct. So that's really the key there is that s dry means surfaced dry as. [00:14:27] Speaker C: Opposed to surfaced first and then dried. [00:14:31] Speaker B: Correct. [00:14:31] Speaker C: That's literally the difference. [00:14:33] Speaker B: That is the difference. [00:14:34] Speaker C: But they're all dried to a. A 19% moisture content, I believe, is what it is. [00:14:40] Speaker B: And. [00:14:40] Speaker C: And that is what you would use to frame a house and get the moisture content that you need in order to pass your. Whatever you call that. [00:14:50] Speaker B: Yeah. To be able to sheet rock inspection. Inspection. [00:14:52] Speaker C: Right. [00:14:53] Speaker B: You want to get it in. [00:14:53] Speaker C: Pass your framing inspection so you can get drywall going. [00:14:56] Speaker B: Yep. Because if you, like I said, if you sheetrock over wet lumber, you know, you're potentially. You're asking for trouble. [00:15:02] Speaker C: Right. Which is what we've been doing for a really long time. And, you know, but that doesn't change the fact that we didn't know how mold and mildew were affecting us until we knew. And then when we knew, we said, oh, we better stop doing that. And so that's how we move forward anyway. You can expect framing material like that, whether you're building a dog house or a shed or garage or building a house or whatever that it is. You can expect those to come in pretty standard lengths, eight through 20 on the ground. Right. Stocked eight through 20 in two foot molts. So. 810 1214 16 1820. In some dimensional lumber, less, you know, less used dimensional lumber, this sometimes will drop fourteen s and eighteen s. Those are the least popular lengths. So, like, for example, some treated lumber that we'll talk about here in a little bit. You won't find it in fourteen s and eighteen s. They're just not as common. But. 810 1214 16 1820. Those are usually on the ground. You can get lumber longer. [00:16:02] Speaker B: 222-426-2828 I've seen two by 1228 footers. Not very common. [00:16:09] Speaker C: Right. Not generally on the ground or in stock, but certainly something that can be ordered. And it's a little bit more expensive per foot to go with those long lengths. [00:16:17] Speaker B: You'll pay a premium for anything over 20ft. Yeah, but it is available. It might not be readily available. I mean, I've sold a lot of projects with 24 foot two by twelve on it for, like, suspended garages or, you know, roof rafters. You'll see those long lengths, but again, it's just not terribly common. [00:16:37] Speaker C: And those widths that you'll find on the ground, generally very common. Two by four, two by six, two by eight, two by ten, two by twelve. Two by 14 is out there. Two by 16, but not very common. So you won't probably find two by 14 and two by 16 on the ground. Be something that would have to be ordered. And then, of course, you can always get two by two, one by two, sometimes two by three. Depends on the area, if they've got somebody that's using it regularly. But not everybody has two by three on the ground. [00:17:05] Speaker B: Yeah. Let's talk a little bit about the grading. [00:17:09] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:17:09] Speaker B: The lumber grading. You actually have in front of you, Tony, a western lumber grading rulebook by the Western Wood Products association, the WWPA. And that is kind of the Bible. [00:17:22] Speaker C: How come there's a yellow tab on here that denotes. This page is for grading for dummies. Is this where you were reading? [00:17:31] Speaker B: Because we're dummies. [00:17:33] Speaker C: This is where you were spending a lot of your time. [00:17:35] Speaker B: Probably. See that. [00:17:36] Speaker C: Yeah. You will find grades that sound like this utility grade. Utility grade is a non structural grade. It's usually the lowest grade. Sometimes it's referred to as a number three. [00:17:48] Speaker B: This thing here that I denoted on this page was for s dry lumber. [00:17:53] Speaker C: Oh, was it really? Yeah. [00:17:54] Speaker B: Because I had to physically get this book and show a customer. Cause they did not trust me. [00:18:00] Speaker C: They didn't believe you? [00:18:01] Speaker B: They did not believe me. I should read this. This is just a quick paragraph here. I'll do that after the break. I wanna read through that to give you the exact western wood products lumber grading rules regarding s dry lumber. [00:18:13] Speaker C: Yeah. Other very common grades that you'll find in dimensional lumber on the ground. Number two, a lot of times you'll hear them call it two and better, sometimes standard and better. Number one, select structural, which elect struck. [00:18:26] Speaker B: Is one of the highest. And then they have MSR lumber, which is a machine stressed when they actually take a piece of wood, put it into a machine, and it clamps on both ends of it and tugs on it and how much give, it'll pass or fail. [00:18:46] Speaker C: They really want to know how well it's gonna perform. [00:18:48] Speaker B: Yeah, you'll see that a lot in truss. [00:18:50] Speaker C: We gotta take another quick break. We'll be right back. Don't go away. [00:19:06] Speaker A: You're listening to the weeknd warriors home improvement show, built by parl Umber. Now here's Tony and Corey. [00:19:20] Speaker B: Hey, welcome back to the weekend warriors home improvement show. Thanks for sticking around today. Tony and I are talking about lumberyard lingo. We really like this subject. It's nerdy, it's fun. There's a lot of information that we know inside of our brains. I know sometimes it seems like it's very little, but we like to share it when we know about it. [00:19:40] Speaker C: Absolutely. [00:19:41] Speaker B: But if you haven't already, go check out our Facebook, Instagram, YouTube, Pinterest, we're home show. If you go to YouTube and search WW home show, it'll pull up our channel. Or you can search weekend warriors home improvement show. We've got a lot of videos on there. We're actually recording this right now for our video podcast. You can go check that out, see what we look like. And if you miss any portion of this, you can watch it on that. We also have tons of how to videos and just different things. So we'd love if you went and subscribed to that and gave us some comments. Really easy. If you want to go to par.com, that's parr.com, dot click on the weekend warriors link and that'll take you to our website that's got all those links on it. [00:20:21] Speaker C: Yeah. Also, you can catch our podcast on Spotify, iHeartRadio, Google Play, or Apple Podcast. [00:20:27] Speaker B: Yes. So we try to keep those up to date. We've got. And we got like 40 or 50, 60 episodes on there. And podcasts are where it's at. People love podcasts. I'm starting to get into them and I didn't know how popular they were, but they certainly are. [00:20:43] Speaker C: Yeah, absolutely. It's a very cool medium. [00:20:46] Speaker B: So, yes, before the break, we were talking about dimensional lumber, and we were talking about surface dried versus heat dried moisture content. I actually had the page identified in this western lumber grading rules by the Western Wood Products association. And this is the definition in the book regarding moisture content for dried lumber. Any lumber surfaced at a moisture content of 19% or less may be stamped s dry or when kiln dried, KD. Except as otherwise provided, any lumber surfaced at a moisture content of 15% or less may be stamped MC 15 or when kiln dried, KD 15. It is permissible to stamp as s dry or kd if kiln dried lumber surfaced at a moisture content of 15% less. However, if such lumber is invoiced as MC 15 or KD 15 or some lesser moisture content, and re inspection is made, the invoice provisions. The invoice provision shall prevail for purposes of reinspection. [00:21:59] Speaker C: Wow. Wow. I mean, I just feel like that could be some great Saturday night reading. [00:22:05] Speaker B: This book is just. [00:22:05] Speaker C: Wanna hang out so easy. Read some of that stuff. [00:22:08] Speaker B: Formative. [00:22:09] Speaker C: Yeah. MC 15. I'll be having MC 15 in my dreams. [00:22:12] Speaker B: If you want to learn about structural laminations, I'm your guy. [00:22:17] Speaker C: I'm excited about that. Let's get into some of that. Not today, though. Instead today. Are you bored? No. Absolutely not. Bored? Absolutely not. [00:22:28] Speaker B: Bored isn't a lumber board. [00:22:30] Speaker C: Here's a couple more terms for you, Corey. When we're talking about dimensional lumber, sometimes somebody will say, I need to get some studs, or, I need to get some random links. I need some random links. [00:22:42] Speaker B: Yeah, that is a. I hear those terms every day. [00:22:44] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:22:44] Speaker B: As a matter of fact, an abbreviation. [00:22:46] Speaker C: Would be like, rndl. Random links. [00:22:49] Speaker B: Yep. [00:22:50] Speaker C: Some people like to call them rundles. [00:22:53] Speaker B: Nobody calls them that. [00:22:55] Speaker C: There was one guy. There was one. One customer of ours who would always order rundle sign. [00:23:00] Speaker B: They're making that up. [00:23:00] Speaker C: No, it's true. But studs? Why studs? And what is the deal with all the different stud links? There's so many. [00:23:07] Speaker B: Well, yeah, yeah, you make a good point. So when somebody comes in and they ask for studs, we'll say, well, how high is your wall? They make stud lengths in a specific height, cut to what they call a pet. Precision, and trimmed. If you were to come in and say, give me a bunch of eight footers, I'm gonna build an eight foot wall. [00:23:26] Speaker C: I want eight foot studs. [00:23:27] Speaker B: Yeah. Eight foot studs. And so you come in and you get eight foot studs. Well, I'll tell you right now, random lengths, which is your multiples of two foot, eight foot. Ten foot. 1214 16 1820. Those are not precision end trimmed. So you could order an eight foot stud. And in that unit, there's a tolerance. So you might get one that's like 95 and three quarter. You might get one that's 96 and an 8th. 96 and a quarter. I mean, it's just. They're not precision and trimmed. They're just. It's to a tolerance. If it fits in that tolerance, it goes in the bunk. [00:24:04] Speaker C: Right. [00:24:05] Speaker B: So you will say, if you want to build a wall, an eight foot wall, you're gonna have to cut every single one of those. Cause if you were to just nail it up and stand it up, it's the top of. It's gonna be wavy. [00:24:17] Speaker C: Oh, yeah. [00:24:18] Speaker B: Guaranteed by. By ever so much. Every little stud is gonna be different length. [00:24:23] Speaker C: Not to mention it's gonna be four and a half inches taller than you want it to be. [00:24:26] Speaker B: Exactly. [00:24:27] Speaker C: And why is that? [00:24:28] Speaker B: Well, because you have plates. You have a bottom plate, a top plate and a very top plate and a tectonic plate. Well, it's just in wall construction, that's how you build a wall. [00:24:40] Speaker C: Right. [00:24:40] Speaker B: You have a bottom plate, you have a top plate. And then after you stand all those up, you have a very top plate that you tie all of the walls together. And typically, you would overlap them over your joints or over the, you know, a wall section that's split. And that's what that's called, a very top plate. So when you have that, each thickness of two by material is an inch and a half. Well, if you take that times three, it's four and a half inches. So when you're sheet rocking and you want eight foot ceilings, you would buy a 92 and five eight inch stud. [00:25:18] Speaker C: Which is four and a half inches short of eight foot. Yeah, exactly. [00:25:21] Speaker B: Well, a little bit. It's a little bit different. [00:25:23] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:25:23] Speaker B: Ish. But it gives you that height to be able to sheet rock in half. When you're done, you're gonna have an. [00:25:30] Speaker C: Eight foot tall wall, and that plate's gonna be super flat and level all the way down. Because all of those studs were precision and trimmed. [00:25:37] Speaker B: Precision and trimmed, yes. [00:25:40] Speaker C: Yeah. And so, studs, you'd have different heights of walls depending on the plans that you're building with. [00:25:44] Speaker B: Back in the day, you'd have 88 and five eight, seven foot wall, 92. [00:25:49] Speaker C: And five eighths, 104 and five eighths. [00:25:51] Speaker B: 104 is 116 for a ten foot wall. So that's what you come in, you say walk in the door and they can say, give me, I need some studs. And you say, what length? And if you say eight foot, depending on the salesperson or the person that you're talking to, you may get either 92 and five eight or you might get 96 inch. [00:26:11] Speaker C: Yeah. Two by fours, non precision interim two by fours. [00:26:14] Speaker B: Right. [00:26:14] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:26:15] Speaker B: So that's something to consider. [00:26:16] Speaker C: Stud's also available at the current time in green and dry as well. Like you said, though, it is mostly moving to dry more and more because of code requirements. [00:26:27] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. In preference. A lot of old timers still like the green lumber, still love it. [00:26:33] Speaker C: Yeah. And professionals will come into the yard and order random. They'll say, hey, look, I need, I need 600ft of two by four random, because they're going to be doing things like building pony walls, which uses a bunch of small lengths and they don't really care what length it is, they just want it. This many feet is what they need out there. And the same thing goes for, you know, you know, blocking. Yeah, blocking and top and bottom plates and all that stuff. So they'll just say, I need to get 600ft of random. And when you ask for random, there's a thing. You get the product at a little bit less per foot. There's a random length cost and a specified length cost. Those are different. It's not a lot different. But, you know, at the end of a, at the end of a house, it can make a big difference. And so what happens when you order random length structure for your two by six or two by eight or whatever, the load builder will go out and pull that unit and he will pull a little bit of everything. He'll pull some 14s, he'll pull some 18s, he'll pull some eights and tens. And it won't all be twenties. If everybody had their way, they just, everybody would use twenties. But that's not the way that it is. And so random length, you get a little bit better deal, but you have to use all of the links that are out there. And so there's a little insight there. [00:27:44] Speaker B: Yeah, that's a good tip. Yeah. Random length is one. There was another term that I just had in my head that I wanted to say. I cannot remember what it is. [00:27:53] Speaker C: Yeah. Lumberyard lingo, man. It's a lot. It's a lot to remember. It's a lot to cover. But we got a long show ahead of us. We're going to get a chance to talk about all that stuff. What is it? [00:28:03] Speaker B: Um, here in the Pacific Northwest, sometimes you'll see hem fur. [00:28:08] Speaker C: Oh, yeah. That's where they take a hemlock and a fur and they graft it together and make an adult hemphur. And then when they mill it, it's hemp fur. Is that right? [00:28:18] Speaker B: No. [00:28:18] Speaker C: Oh, it's not right. [00:28:19] Speaker B: It's hem. Hemlock versus Douglas fir. Douglas fir is stronger, it's more dense. Hemlock is lighter, less dense. It's not as strong. But some contractors, some builders prefer hemp fur because of its cost. Sometimes it's a lot less than Douglas fir. So sometimes you'll see that as well. [00:28:38] Speaker C: Yeah. Interesting. It can be confusing, but the more you know. Well, the more you know. [00:28:43] Speaker B: Oh, I do. The other one is plumb and lion. You know what that means? I'll tell you after the break. [00:28:47] Speaker C: That sounds good. We take a quick break, you listen to Tony, Corey, your week in warriors. Don't go away. [00:29:07] Speaker A: You're listening to the Weeknd warriors home improvement show, built by parl Umber. Now here's Tony and Corey. [00:29:17] Speaker B: Hey, welcome back to the Weekend warriors home improvement show. Thanks for staying with us today. We're talking about lumberyard lingo, and we've been talking about dimensional lumber. And before the break, we were talking about random lengths, precision end trim studs. That's all very important things. If you were to go in and order any sort of project, you would have to say, I want x amount of feet of random, and I want eight foot 92 and five eight studs. But then you're going to want a little bit extra for what they call plumb and line. And any framer knows what, what plumb and line is. It's actually typically will send out 14 footers for plumb and line. And what they do is they nail a board to the top plate, and then they bring it down at an angle and nail it to the floor. [00:30:05] Speaker C: And they'll, some people call those bracing. [00:30:09] Speaker B: Bracing is another term for it. [00:30:10] Speaker C: Oh, okay. [00:30:11] Speaker B: But you'll, they'll, they'll take a string, put it on one edge of the wall, and put the string on the far end of the wall, and they'll draw it tight and then down that wall. If you were to climb up on top of it and look down it, that thing's wavy as a noodle. [00:30:24] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:30:25] Speaker B: And they use the plumbing line to straighten that wall all the way down to make sure that wall is plumb straight and flat. [00:30:34] Speaker C: Interesting. [00:30:35] Speaker B: Yeah, it's very important to do that, because if you don't, by the time you got to your third floor, that building would be waving back. [00:30:41] Speaker C: Yeah. I mean, it's one thing to be level, but you also gotta be plumb Bob. [00:30:46] Speaker B: Yes. [00:30:47] Speaker C: Plum Bob. [00:30:48] Speaker B: Plum Bob. [00:30:50] Speaker C: Well, okay. I think we've had enough of dimensional lumber. That's a lot. It's pretty. [00:30:54] Speaker B: Says you. [00:30:54] Speaker C: It's pretty deep. Let's move on to sheet goods. There it is. Well, hold on. [00:30:58] Speaker B: I feel like there's. We're missing a couple things. [00:31:00] Speaker C: Okay, what are we missing? [00:31:01] Speaker B: We didn't talk about premium grade timbers. [00:31:05] Speaker C: Okay, premium. [00:31:06] Speaker B: We were talking about grading. [00:31:07] Speaker C: Okay. [00:31:08] Speaker B: And you gotta get that customer that wants something beautiful. They want to walk in the door and say, I want. I want this six by twelve, but I don't want that stuff with Wayne. Do you know what Wayne is? [00:31:19] Speaker C: I do. He's terrible. [00:31:20] Speaker B: You know who he is? [00:31:21] Speaker C: He's a terrible guy. [00:31:22] Speaker B: I don't want heart center. I don't want Wayne. And. [00:31:27] Speaker C: Yeah, free of heart center. Big. No, Wayne. Those are big things that people will. A lot of times, people know that's what they want, but they don't know how to ask for it. [00:31:35] Speaker B: Exactly. [00:31:36] Speaker C: And so, Wayne is when you have milled lumber that's at the edge of the tree, and the. You know, the. If you're looking at a tree, a tree is a solid piece of wood, round piece of wood that's covered in bark. And then they take that and they run that through the mill and they cut all those pieces down. Well, the edge of that. Of that piece of lumber, that is all the way out where the bark was. That's a sort of a angled off piece there, which was the. The outside edge of the tree. The smaller the trees are that we mill, the more wane there is. And that is simply it. We're not cutting old growth anymore, so we get fewer pieces of wood out of smaller trees, and a larger percentage of wain wane, of course. Is that where the wood is? Not perfectly rectangle all the way around. You don't have four good corners. [00:32:22] Speaker B: They kind of be rounded. [00:32:24] Speaker C: One or two are kind of rounded, and they're dark in color because it's where the bark was. And now the bark is gone. Sometimes the bark's still there. I mean, but here's the thing, folks. If you're using this material to frame a structure and you're going to be covering it up with siding or with sheetrock or whatever, then, you know, you can. You can hide that stuff and it doesn't matter. You can turn it to the inside of the wall, but a lot of people just don't want to have to deal with that, especially if that product is going to be exposed. For example, I built an exposed patio cover on the back of my house, and if it had wane all over those, those materials, I would not like that. It's simply exposed, and I want it to be clean with square edges. So I bought a product that was free of Wayne and also free of heart center. Once you explain what heart center is. [00:33:10] Speaker B: Well, heart center is the dead center of the tree. That right in the middle. And you'll see that that's undesirable because it could potentially cause your lumber to warp. [00:33:22] Speaker C: The center of the tree seems to be. Tends to be the most volatile part of the tree. [00:33:26] Speaker B: So they will cut, they will mill lumber free of heart center. And that just means they've milled that piece out of something that doesn't have the dead center of that tree. [00:33:36] Speaker C: And so that waste, which they end up throwing away because they've cut the lumber around it, they may charge a little bit more for that stuff. [00:33:43] Speaker B: Yeah, it definitely costs more. But then, like you said, they can get it free of wane. So you got to have a tree big enough that you will get no heart center and no wane. The other thing that people will ask for is the edges. So, on lumber, like you just said, they'll. They'll put on what's called s one s, two e, or, you know, s four s. And what that means, it's surfaced one side with two edges or four edges. And that. That means that the. The very, very corner of the wood, s four s, would mean surfaced four sides. And there's. There's no rounded edges. It's very sharp, sharp corner s, one s, two e, that would be surfaced on one side and two edges. Two edges. And most framing lumber is four edges. And it'll have, like, just radiuses on all four corners. It's nice and smooth. But, yeah, that doesn't necessarily look really good when you're building a timber frame or something. So you'll want to ask for free of heart center, free of Wayne s, four s. And the other thing that you'll want to know before ordering lumber like that is if you want it smooth s four s, or if you want it rough sawn and or resawn rough sawn lumber or solid sawn lumber will come out. That's different. That'll come out full width. So before planing. So they'll it'll come out like five and three quarters or six inches wide. So if you ordered a six by twelve, it would come out close to twelve inches tall. If you bought it re sawn, that means they mill it to five and a half inches by eleven and a quarter, which is a normal six by twelve. And then they rough it up. It's reson to make it look rough. [00:35:31] Speaker C: Yeah, that, I mean that's a, there's, that's a lot. What you just said is a lot. [00:35:36] Speaker B: It is. And it really, what you want to do is talk to a salesperson that knows what you're trying to accomplish. You know, if you just walk in and say, give me a six by 1220 footer and they don't ask what it's for, or if you don't say, well, hey, I'm building this exposed thing and I really need nice looking lumber. You're going to get a piece that has weighing on it. You're going to get a piece that has checks that has lots of knots maybe falling out. I mean it's, that's lumber. [00:36:03] Speaker C: That's wood. Yeah. You don't generally find that premium grade free of heart center no wane. You don't generally find that on the ground because it's hard to keep it nice, especially at a lumberyard that doesn't have a lot of covered space. So it's hard to keep it nice. Plus we use big equipment to move our stuff around, forklifts and trucks and all that. And it just has a tendency to get dinged and it's certainly too expensive to, to stock that and push it around and have it. So it generally is, you know, something that we order now all the suppliers of par lumber company are in, you know, a lot of times next day, you know, maybe a couple of days, but it's a short turnaround time for this type of a product that's in stock at our supplier and our suppliers warehouse. And we can get it pretty quickly. But you will pay a premium price, but you'll be really happy with it in the end. And again, this is not clear. We're not talking about clear. It's still going to have knots. Yeah, I mean, that's a whole different thing. If you were looking to get a six by twelve that was free of heart center and dry and clear and clear. I mean, forget about it. I mean you're, I don't know, it may be out there. [00:37:15] Speaker B: You have to go see, you'd be. [00:37:17] Speaker C: Better off, you know, wrapping it in a clear veneer you'd have to go. [00:37:20] Speaker B: Steal it from Timberline Lodge. [00:37:24] Speaker C: For sure. And then, so that brings me to the last little bit of this dimensional lumber part. You know, a lot of times you don't have to have a solid sawn timber for something that's, that's not, you know, structural or you. A lot of times, or even if it is structural, you can put that less expensive lumber up there and then wrap it with something that's pretty naughty, cedar or clear cedar, and put that wrap on it and have it look at as nice as it would have if you paid big money for exposed, you know, grade dry, free of heart center. No Wayne products. [00:37:59] Speaker B: It does take some craftsmanship to wrap a beam and make it look good because, you know, you have to get the edges right. I mean, it. There is some craftsmanship there. I've seen it done really, really well, and I've seen it done really, really bad, because that is the other thing with dimensional lumber. It will twist. So if you, if you wrap it all, make it just look perfect, then that thing will twist and pop all those nails and glue, and it'll just look terrible anyway, which is why you would use engineered wood. But we'll get into that a bit later. [00:38:32] Speaker C: Yeah, there's a, there's a lot to be talked about there, too, as well. But as we leave dimensional lumber, I think we move into another big portion, another big topic, which is really sheet goods. A lot of people refer to it as plywood or sidewall sheeting panels. Roof sheeting panels, yeah, decking or floor sheeting. Four by eight sheets, very common. Four by nine sheets sometimes. Four by ten sheets sometimes. I mean, if you're talking about drywall, which is also a sheet, good, but not wood at all. Four by ten and four by twelve are very common. Yeah. So there's a lot of sizes out there, a lot of thicknesses. Quarter inch, three eight, half, five eight, three quarter, seven, eight, one inch inch and an 8th, you know, and all four different types of things. But it's a very deep, it's a very deep grouping of products that's out there. Probably very common. Like the number one most common Thing, I think, out there, probably half inch cdx, four by eight sheets, a half inch cdx. You find it on the roof, you find it on the walls, you find it everywhere. An example of an alternate product way for board. So we'll talk about sheeting when we come back right after this break. You're listening to TONY coreY, your week in warriors. Don't go away. I wanted to go. [00:39:55] Speaker A: You're listening to the weeknd warriors home improvement show built by Parl Umber. When it comes to big or small projects around the home, Tony and Corey, you've got the know how and the answers to make your life just a bit easier. Now here's Tony and Corey. [00:40:13] Speaker B: Hey, welcome back to the Weekend warriors home improvement show. Thanks for staying with us. I'm Cory Valdez. [00:40:19] Speaker C: I'm Tony Cookston. [00:40:20] Speaker B: Today we're talking about lumberyard lingo. And the first half of the show, we've been talking about dimensional, and we just got into sheet goods. [00:40:29] Speaker C: Barely. We just scratched it. [00:40:31] Speaker B: Sheets are not the things on your bed. [00:40:33] Speaker C: Right. [00:40:34] Speaker B: But I, you know, a lot of people refer to them as panels. Plywood. You know, there's a. Plywood's kind of funny, that name, plywood. People just say plywood when they mean everything. Everything. [00:40:46] Speaker C: Yeah. You know, except Sheetrock. [00:40:49] Speaker B: And the thicknesses are really weird, right? And there's different plies. Like, when you're talking about plywood, to me, plywood means veneered, laminated together to create a wood product, solid all the way through. [00:41:06] Speaker C: It's really cool. Think about it like this, you know? Have you ever used a mandolin in the kitchen, Corey? Have you ever used a mandolin? [00:41:12] Speaker B: A mandolin? [00:41:13] Speaker C: Yeah, it's a thing that lays down flat, and it's got a blade, and you run your potato or your radish or whatever, and it makes little, tiny shavings off of it. They take this really big mandolin, and they go around a tree, and they peel veneer off of the tree in long sheets, really thin tree that spins. [00:41:30] Speaker B: And the blade comes down. [00:41:31] Speaker C: Yeah, like that. You put an apple on one of those things, and you spin it around, and it just takes the peel all. [00:41:36] Speaker B: The way right down to the core. [00:41:37] Speaker C: Yeah, it's just like that, right? It does that, and then they flatten it out, and then they take the core, and they sell that peeler core. [00:41:44] Speaker B: That's right. [00:41:44] Speaker C: I mean, they sell the whole thing, and they take the sawdust, and they turn that into pellets, and they sell that. I mean, I'll tell you what. When it comes to wood, they use every last little bit. Uh, I mean, I'd be surprised if they didn't sell the bugs that came out of it. They might. They might probably do, but, uh, yeah, they use all of that, but. So they peel these, uh, trees. They. I don't know how they choose the tree that gets peeled for plywood versus the tree that gets cut into dimensional lumber, but. But they peel all that veneer off, and then they cut that veneer into links that are eight foot or nine foot or ten foot. And in widths of four foot, which is very common, you can actually get some five by ten plywood out there. It's not common, not on the ground. But they take these veneers, like you said, and they glue them together and they compress them together and it becomes this sheet. [00:42:32] Speaker B: Good. [00:42:32] Speaker C: Yeah, sheet. It's very flat. Mostly very flat. The fewer the plies, the less flat it is by itself. Typically, yeah, you get a three ply or a four ply, even a five ply. You see it in a unit and it's kind of got a hump in the middle where it's kind of just got this formed into this little thing. It doesn't really lay real flat. But the more plies you get, the more money you spend and the flatter, more true sheet of ply you get. [00:43:03] Speaker B: Yeah. And there's also, in those plies, they will alternate the direction of the veneers. So you'll have one facing this way, you'll have another one facing this way, and another one facing opposite way. And that's called cross banded, where they cross them inside of the. The plies. And that creates for a much stronger panel. So you'll see that. But then also sometimes you'll see the cores of a different material. So they can take, say, Douglas fir, and then they'll use spruce and then Douglas fir. And then spruce and then Douglas fir. It makes the panel less expensive. Or in that. Also what they'll do is, you know, it's the term CDX, kind of. Everybody knows that term. CDX. [00:43:51] Speaker C: Standard exterior grade. [00:43:52] Speaker B: Yep. That means that it has a c face and a d face, and it has exterior glue. [00:43:58] Speaker C: Right. [00:43:58] Speaker B: That's what CDX means. [00:44:00] Speaker C: That's right. [00:44:00] Speaker B: And then you'll also see CCX, you know, BCX or BBX. There's different plywoods that are manufactured. You know, you're gonna. Your most common ones are gonna be your CDX, your Cc, which also comes with a PTSD. Then you'll hear terms like marine grade and underlayment grade. Those. The terminology on those is sometimes a little tricky. People will come in and ask me for marine grade plywood and thinking that it's waterproof or pressure treated. That is not the case. Marine grade plywood is just has to do with the cores that are in it and the voids that are in it. [00:44:42] Speaker C: Plywood, if you think about it like this, and you peel the veneer off of a tree. Well, that tree had branches, and those branches leave knots, and those knots are holes in the veneer. So the veneer comes off, and there are knot holes in the veneer, just like there would be in anything else. Well, if you lay two veneers or three veneers or four veneers over top of each other, and a couple of those knot holes line up, well, you've got a void in the middle of your plywood. [00:45:08] Speaker B: Yes, void. [00:45:08] Speaker C: And so you're about to talk about plywood that has no voids. [00:45:13] Speaker B: Right. That's marine grade. For instance, you'll have multiple plies, many plies, a lot of times seven ply for half inch or three quarter inch, and that will have no voids inside of that core. And it's manufactured in a way that's meant to be used in a marine application. Um, the same thing goes for underlayment grade. There's very strict rules and regulations for how underlayment grade plywood is made is because, like Tony said, you get those veneers in there that have holes in them, and then you get one too close to the top surface and say you lay that down and you put carpet over it, like a lot of people do, and you have a gal walking in with some high heels, and that high heel sits right over above a thin layer of veneer and punctures right through. [00:46:02] Speaker C: Yeah, I really feel like that the grade, the underlayment grade was, you know, came out at the same time as high heels. I feel like they were probably. It was because of high heels. Well, that they started. That. They started that underlayment grade, but it's. [00:46:17] Speaker B: Also with the strength, right. The way that they lay the veneers out creates a really strong pattern for underlayment plywood. And that means that you can walk on it. That's what that means. You know, it's different from roof plywood that's rated differently. So that those are the kinds of things you have to think about when you're talking about panels. You know, you walk into a store and you're building furniture, you wouldn't want to use CDX or even cC. Pts. And the pts portion of that, which we were talking about earlier, means plugged, touched, and sanded. And what they do is the top face of it. It's a sea face, but then they sand it smooth, and they plug all the veneer holes. Depending on hatch them. [00:47:02] Speaker C: Yeah, depending on how big it is, they'll just fill it with a putty and sand it off. Or if it's large enough, then they'll cut a little football shaped patch and plug it with a patch and then sand over top of that. Yep. [00:47:14] Speaker B: And it looks really good when it's painted. And a lot of times you'll see that plywood used in an overhang. [00:47:21] Speaker C: Most commonly. [00:47:22] Speaker B: Most commonly for, like, the overhang on your roof. [00:47:25] Speaker C: Yep. [00:47:26] Speaker B: You'll want it. You don't want to look up and see knotholes. [00:47:28] Speaker C: Right. [00:47:28] Speaker B: That you would normally sheet a roof with CDX. You would see CCPTs where it's nice and sanded and it paints really nice. [00:47:36] Speaker C: Yep, that's right. Ccpts at the eaves and half inch CDX everywhere else. And then, so another one you'll hear in half inch CDX, five ply, which is just a little bit more sturdy, a little bit more structural, and lays a little bit flatter. So, you know, sometimes plans for projects will call out a five ply product, and we keep that in stock readily as well. [00:47:58] Speaker B: Yeah, sometimes you'll see select struct. That's also another rating for lumber or for plywood. It's a extra strong rating. And then we get into OSB. [00:48:09] Speaker C: OSB oriented strand board, wafer board, Shimangi. There's a lot of names for that, for that product out there, but it works really good as an underlayment grade product on the floor. It does. Because inherently, it has no voids. [00:48:26] Speaker B: Yeah. No, it's a great underlayment grade plywood. For instance, edge gold. [00:48:31] Speaker C: That's right. We're gonna talk some more about that as soon as we come back. You'll listen to Tony Corey, your weekend warriors. Don't go away. [00:48:57] Speaker A: You're listening to the Weeknd warriors home improvement show, built by Barl Humber. Now here's Tony and Corey. Corey. [00:49:10] Speaker B: Hey, welcome back to the week in warriors home improvement show. Thanks for staying with us today. We're talking about lumberyard lingo. Spent a lot of time today talking about dimensional lumber. Now we're talking about sheet goods or panels, plywoods. But right before the break, we were talking about OSB oriented strand board, and there's still a lot of, I don't know, negativity surrounding OSB, would you say? [00:49:39] Speaker C: I would, yeah. And, you know, I mean, it goes back to a time when the product was, you know, was new, pretty new, and it was getting a lot of traction. And then people started to use it in all of the ways that plywood would be used. And so they kind of were spoiled with plywood because it was put together with exterior glue. It would be on the bottom of a trailer or on the walls of a trailer or building a doghouse or whatever, outside. And it would last for a long time because it was put together, exterior glue. And the wood, you know, just inherently would last for a time before it would delaminate and fall apart. And people were used to the amount of time that it would last, and then they would build something with OSB thinking it would last the same, and it does not. It did not. [00:50:26] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:50:27] Speaker C: And a lot of. A lot of improvements have made it in that technology. A lot of things have changed. And wafer board performs so much better than it did 20 years ago. [00:50:39] Speaker B: Probably closer to, I don't know, when OSB was first introduced, but I think it was in the eighties. [00:50:44] Speaker C: Well, I'm sure I'm saying it's made a lot of advancements over the years, and so. But it still has that sort of negative connotation. So I agree with that. It is. It is notable that it is structurally sound for use on the roof and on the walls of a residential home. [00:51:05] Speaker B: Oh, yeah. And commercial. [00:51:07] Speaker C: It's code. And so even though we feel like, I don't want to put that stuff on my house, it is usually less expensive. It is usually a. A money savings option, although that's not always the case. [00:51:23] Speaker B: Not always, but there are a lot of cases to be made for using OSB. Like you said in the floor, Weyerhaeuser makes a product called Edge gold. Edge gold is by far one of the best materials used for an underfloor. It doesn't have any voids. It stays nice and flat. It has tons of resin in it to make it just super, super strong. And it's a somewhat green product because the. The pieces of wood that you're using in it would never be able to be used in anything else because they're just. The trees are so tiny, and, uh, it's, you know, responsibly forested, those sorts of things. Um, but like you said, people have this idea that it's going to swell up and turn into mush. [00:52:06] Speaker C: I mean, it's not intended to be used outside and left outside and not treated with something or not covered up by something. It's just not. It's because of the makeup of it. It's. It's just not an exterior product in that way. It's intended to be used the way it's intended to be used, and it performs that way. [00:52:23] Speaker B: And I tell you what, it's really strong. A sheet of half inch OSB. Structurally, when you talk about shear has a much higher shear value than CDX. And the thing about CDX that I don't particularly care for is when you're building in the wintertime here, is that it can delaminate. You'll see some of those laminations. Plywood will start to get wavy. OSB will stay flat. It will swell a little bit, but it will stay flat. Here's something interesting. OSB was invented by a guy named Armin Elmendorf in 1960. [00:52:58] Speaker C: 319 63. Wow. [00:53:02] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:53:03] Speaker C: It's been around longer than I even imagined. [00:53:05] Speaker B: Me too. [00:53:06] Speaker C: That's for sure. [00:53:07] Speaker B: I don't think it really gained a lot of traction for a long time because, again, people, people would build stuff out of it. And, you know, in its infancy, it didn't have the best resins and best glues. But that's changed over the years. [00:53:19] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:53:19] Speaker B: So I don't have any problem. I'd say I don't even know what the percentage is, but I bet you it's 90% of all new construction is built with oriented strand board. [00:53:28] Speaker C: Yeah, it is a lot, there's no question. And we move a lot of it at par. Lumber company rail cars. Yeah, absolutely. Anyways, it performs really good on the floor, on the walls, on the roof, and in it's. We find it that same technology used in engineered wood products, which we are going to talk about a little bit later in the show. But, but it is a really good sheeting option. It's a decking option. But you know what? It doesn't do really good. It doesn't. It's not a really good siding. [00:54:01] Speaker B: No. [00:54:01] Speaker C: You know, I feel like that if you're gonna, if you're going to be siding the house, then you're, you're right back to something that has to be. I mean, there is actually an OSB siding product called LPT 111. [00:54:15] Speaker B: Yep. [00:54:15] Speaker C: That is an OSB product. [00:54:16] Speaker B: But it's been. Smart panel. [00:54:18] Speaker C: That's right. Smart panel. But it's been treated specifically for that purpose. They give it a wood grain and they, and they prime it and a couple of times, probably on the outside, and they've prepared that to be used as siding. [00:54:32] Speaker B: And honestly, it's a very good product. I mean, it holds up unbelievably, especially here in the Pacific Northwest. You know, they, they didn't used to, but they've corrected those problems and it's a great product. [00:54:45] Speaker C: Yeah. Plywood T 111. Of course, we were using for a long, long time before OSB came along. And then OSB was less expensive and then. So a lot of homes got built with. With LPT 111 or smart panel, to the point now where the price difference between plywood and LPT 111 are almost identical because there's so much demand for the OSB product, the LP smart panel product, because it's been used, and every time somebody's doing a repair, they don't want to resize the whole house. And so that product is in demand, and it's there even to the point where it's not much of a cost savings over plywood like it used to be. [00:55:26] Speaker B: Yeah, T 111, like you said, plywood, it actually stands for texture 111. And T 111 is that kind of that rough sawn face with grooves every four or eight inches. I mean, that's kind of that standard. A lot of houses were built that way in the, what, the eighties, seventies and eighties. [00:55:46] Speaker C: Yeah. I mean, and that was a derivation from board and bat. Right. Which was before that. And this kind of looked like board and bat, but went up a lot easier, less material. And. Yeah. So you will find T 111 siding and plywood, and also in. In OSB LP smart panel, and they come in a plain rhysand, which is with no grooves, a four inch groove and an eight inch groove. And, of course, a reverse board and bat, which is still called that. But also that is a twelve inch groove. I mean, a grooves that are twelve inches apart. [00:56:22] Speaker B: Yeah, twelve inches apart, and they're a little bit wider. [00:56:24] Speaker C: Right. [00:56:24] Speaker B: There's actually another one called fine line, or I think it's called fine line, where the grooves are four inches apart. But it's just a, like a riff saw cut. And it's just really thin fine line groove. [00:56:38] Speaker C: Interesting. [00:56:38] Speaker B: When you put it up, it kind of looks like old school tongue and groove cedar. Yeah. [00:56:43] Speaker C: There's a lot of houses out there sided with t 111, but a lot of times these days, you'll find a lap siding, like around the main walls, and then t 111. Sometimes in the gable ends. Yeah, above the belly band. Yep, that's right. Above the belly band, you have a belly band. So there you go. You've got sheet goods for sheeting the roof and for sheeting the floor and for sheeting the walls. And then, of course, some siding that's made out of sheet goods. And there's. And then there's so much more. Right? [00:57:16] Speaker B: So much sheeting. [00:57:16] Speaker C: Four by eight sheets. Four by ten sheets of particle board. [00:57:20] Speaker B: Oh, man. [00:57:21] Speaker C: Which is neither wafer board or oriented strand board or plywood. This is something that's definitely never to be used outside in any way, shape or form. And is definitely intended to be used on the inside and under your carpet, you know, for example. [00:57:36] Speaker B: Well, yeah, I mean, and I've had that question. I've actually had this problem several times over the years. Working at parlor company is people come in and they ask for, hey, I need 40 sheets of particle board. Then you send it to them and they're like, what is this? Because they thought they were ordering OSB. [00:57:52] Speaker C: Wafer board. [00:57:52] Speaker B: Yeah, or wafer board. Or vice versa. They order wafer board because they think that's particle board. But particle board, the way it's manufactured is more like compressed sawdust. And I know you know what this is. People know what this is. And there's also tempered hardboard that's also like more of a fibrous compressed product. [00:58:13] Speaker C: And then MDF, medium density fiberboard. Yeah, yeah. [00:58:16] Speaker B: I mean, these are all very similar, but different. [00:58:19] Speaker C: And all for interior use. [00:58:21] Speaker B: Yes, interior. [00:58:22] Speaker C: Whether you're making shelves or the subfloor to your carpet or whatever, it does work good. Maybe making cabinets even. It happens. But those are all interior products. We've actually got to take another quick break. When we come back, more lumberyard lingo with your weekend warriors. Don't go away. [00:58:57] Speaker A: You're listening to the Weeknd warriors home improvement show, built by parl Umber. Now here's Tony and Cory. [00:59:10] Speaker B: Hey, welcome back to the Weekend warriors home improvement show. Thanks for staying with us. Hey, if you haven't already, go check out our Facebook, Instagram, YouTube, Pinterest pages. We're home show. You can find all of our videos on YouTube. Just search the Weeknd warriors home improvement show. Or if all that's too difficult, you can go to our website. It's wwh homeshow.com. and all of the links are there. Our email, we love hearing from you actually got an email from a listener the other day asking about building his shop in Moppin. [00:59:43] Speaker C: Yeah, that's right. [00:59:43] Speaker B: Moppin'yeah. [00:59:44] Speaker C: And I went. I went whitewater rafting and moppin. [00:59:48] Speaker B: I know. I love moppin' it's a beautiful place. I really like mopping. [00:59:53] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:59:53] Speaker B: But his question that he asked me was, should he buy a set of plans online from, say, and he was building a shop and he's like, should I buy shop plans from a website? [01:00:07] Speaker C: Well, it wasn't just a shop, though. Shop with a loft over. [01:00:10] Speaker B: Right. [01:00:10] Speaker C: So, I mean, that's. It's actually pretty common and really significant project. Yeah. And really cool. And a significant project. You're right. And so, yeah, his, his question was, should I go online and buy a set of prints? Right. And then. And then, you know, deliver that to my contractor, or should I be having it drawn? Your. Your answer to him was actually pretty good. [01:00:30] Speaker B: Yeah, I told him, and I'll say it right now, I always have trouble with plans that people buy online. They go online and they buy these beautiful house plants, and then they send them to us and they'll have, you know, a cinder block crawl space or they'll have a basement, or they won't have any hardware or engineered things because of the seismic requirements that we have. You know, a lot of the plans, you know, will come from, like, the east coast, and they don't even have the right products. You know, there's products that are available there that aren't here. [01:01:05] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:01:06] Speaker B: So then you gotta take that set of plans to an engineer, have them either engineered or re engineered to work in our zoning and our code stuff here. And then a lot of times you'll have to take it to an architect and have things changed because they don't meet code or they aren't available, the specified products. [01:01:29] Speaker C: Yeah. Just aren't here. [01:01:29] Speaker B: Yeah, it's just a hassle. [01:01:31] Speaker C: The draw there is that you get a set of plans for a limited price, and all of the engineering and everything is already done, so you don't have to hassle with that. And you could save some money. That much is true. If you happen to get a plan that was intended to be used in this part of the country and everything that you want to use matches what is available, then it could go your way. You know, if you were, say, to buy a set of plans online that was maybe a local architect, uh, somebody that you knew that was local, that was using that sort of stuff. But if you just grab a set of plans because they look good and you don't know where they were intended to be used, it can just be a roadblock. [01:02:07] Speaker B: Absolutely. I mean, honestly, you want to deal like, we had Robert Wood from Mountain Wood homes, and we talked extensively about working with a builder who's familiar with the local jurisdictions. You're going to save so much money by talking to a builder first and then going to a designer to design what you want to fit within your budget. If you go out and buy a set of plans online, pay, you know, $1,500 for them or whatever, and you get them and you love it. It's absolutely gorgeous, but it has like, $50,000 in river rock siding on it. And if it absolutely doesn't fit into your budget, then you're making changes and you're changing all of these things and what you end up with is not even what it looks like on the paper. [01:02:55] Speaker C: And, and you're asking the contractor to work outside of his box because he's working with something that he's not familiar with as well. [01:03:01] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, building practices differ from state to state, from region to region. It's just a reality. And if you're trying to get somebody else to build something right, it just doesn't work out. [01:03:12] Speaker C: Right. [01:03:13] Speaker B: Ever? [01:03:13] Speaker C: Sometimes. I mean, sometimes. [01:03:15] Speaker B: Rarely. [01:03:15] Speaker C: It's possible. Again, if you're working with, like, here's a prime example, Corey, if I said, hey, I saw a set of prints online by Alan Mascort, I really like them. What do you think? [01:03:25] Speaker B: That's different. [01:03:26] Speaker C: It's different. [01:03:27] Speaker B: Why? No, you're right. [01:03:28] Speaker C: It's different because I know the architect is right here in the PNW. And so I know that he's going to be talking about styles that are here, he's going to be talking about products that are here. He's going to be in his stuff is going to be popular with contractors around here. So I'm just saying you could choose plans from an architect that's local and that's one thing. But not knowing whether or not the prints were drawn locally is really where you're at. [01:03:51] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:03:52] Speaker C: So anyway, that was great. I really appreciated that query and thank you so much for sending that in. It inspires a great topic of conversation for the two of us, too, which I love. And so just to finish up what you were saying, you can also catch our podcasts on iHeartRadio, on Spotify, on Google Podcast or Google Play, and also Apple podcasts. So check those out. [01:04:19] Speaker B: Yeah, the podcast, man, those things are popular. [01:04:22] Speaker C: Yeah, I love them. Love, love. [01:04:24] Speaker B: Can't say that enough. So anyway, we're talking lumber yard lingo today. We've been covering dimensional lumber sheet goods. Let's talk a little bit. I mean, we've kind of covered everything there is with sheet goods to an extent. There's a lot more. [01:04:38] Speaker C: Yeah. The only thing we didn't really talk about is that a lot of times you'll find sheet goods that are, we were talking about interior use, particle board and MDF and those sort of things you build shelves and, and, you know, an entertainment center or those types of things that are going to be used inside. We didn't talk about melamine, which is a specific kind of particle board that's treated with sort of a baked on finish. And you can get it in different colors. It can be white or gray or black or whatever. But melamine is very common for shells because it could just be wiped right off. Particle board, of course, has to be painted. And. And then that paint, you know, sometimes is flat paint, which doesn't wipe very easy or whatever. But melamine is a sort of baked on finish. It's sort of a pre finished, ready to go shelving type product. But it's still particle board. And, you know, I have. I don't have a special place in my heart for particle board. [01:05:27] Speaker B: I don't either. It smells funny. [01:05:29] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:05:30] Speaker B: And, like, the smells of whatever is around it gets sucked into it. Like, if you've ever walked into a. A house that you're maybe potentially going to buy and you go into the. [01:05:39] Speaker C: People were smokers or something, it was. [01:05:41] Speaker B: All like, just raw particle board shelving. It just stinks. [01:05:44] Speaker C: Oh, yeah. You can actually see the smell is soaked into it and leaves, like, smell stains. Right on. [01:05:50] Speaker B: Anyway, melamines, a way to go there. [01:05:52] Speaker C: Yeah, melamine. [01:05:53] Speaker B: So let's jump into hardware. [01:05:56] Speaker C: Boy, hardware is there. That's a deep hole, isn't it? [01:05:59] Speaker B: It really is. There's. Depending on who you're talking to, which trade. Hardware can be a lot of different things. [01:06:08] Speaker C: Yeah. Hardware can be pipe or hose or those types of fittings. For a plumber, it can be wire or wire nuts for an electrician. But for a framer, for construction of structures, one of the very common names is Simpson hardware. Simpson hardware makes all of those connectors and straps and. And all of those hangers that are used to hold members of wood together to make them work together and be strong. And also, for obvious reasons, hurricane and earthquake resistant. [01:06:47] Speaker B: Simpson strong tie. Very, very big company. And we see it a lot here in the Pacific Northwest. We see it a lot on the west coast because of the seismic requirements that are in place to build buildings. And Simpson essentially operates under the, you know, kind of the earthquake, like you said, the hurricane. They essentially, they hold the building in all of the connections of those that building. They hold them tight and they hold them down to the foundation. [01:07:20] Speaker C: Right. [01:07:20] Speaker B: So if there's a. The seismic event that's gonna shake, but it's not going to fall off or fall apart. Fall apart. Yeah, exactly right. [01:07:28] Speaker C: It's not gonna. It's not going to collapse on itself or crush you or whatever if you're in the house. [01:07:33] Speaker B: But there's very specific things with that hardware. If you walk in the door and you say, I need a hanger for a two by eight, but you fail to tell them it's for a pressure treated two by eight. You could be in a lot of trouble there. Yeah, because there's a big difference between regular hangers intended to be used indoors or a hanger that's intended to be used outdoors with pressure treated. Pressure treated lumber here is made with zinc. No, it's made with copper azoles. Copper azel. And so when you have the zinc in your Simpson hardware and the copper in the PT, when they get together, they create electrolysis and will actually corrode the metal very, very quickly. So if you use the wrong hanger with the wrong piece of wood, be a lot of trouble. [01:08:24] Speaker C: And you'll be replacing that hanger before you know it. [01:08:27] Speaker B: Yes, sir. [01:08:27] Speaker C: But there's a lot more, actually, that can be said about that. And we didn't even talk about hot dip, galvanized or stainless steel. We got to take a quick break. When we come back, more weekend warriors. Don't go away. [01:08:57] Speaker A: You're listening to the weekend warriors home improvement show built by Parl Lumber. Now here's Tony and Cory. [01:09:10] Speaker B: Hey, welcome back to the weekend warriors home improvement show. Today we're talking about lumberyard lingo. And before the break, we're talking about hardware. Hardware is, the Simpson strong tie catalog is gigantic. [01:09:23] Speaker C: And you're never going to get this stuff as we're talking about lingo. Right. You're not going to get this stuff memorized. If I told you I needed an MSTC 48, Corey knows what that is. I know what that is. But we're not going to be able to teach you all that stuff. So, so we're going to have to just kind of try to go through some of the things that Simpson makes and what they do and how common they are. They've got hangers, straps, they got basic hold downs, they got caps, hold downs. I mean, there is so many got things that are a double wide or a triple wide or, you know, they've got things that you need to use the hangers in, in pairs. They've got some that twist and some that turn corners. They got L's and T's. I mean, all of these hangers that, we'll call them hangers, really, they're connectors. All of these metal connectors, metal connectors that are used to hold your home together when it's been built. But a lot of them are very, very common. Here's a prime example of a very common one. If you're building a fence and you're going to have your rails attached to your post. You will use a fence post bracket and a fence post bracket made by Simpson. Strong tie is very common. We sell them by the thousands. And they're FB 24 Z. That's right. They're very inexpensive, but it makes putting a fence together much easier than trying to toenail all of your rails. So it's not even all about the house. Some of it is about other things around the house. [01:10:51] Speaker B: Yeah, it's, it's really fun to go in to par lumber and just ask for a Simpson catalog. We have piles of them behind the desk, and Simpson's happy to give them to you. Yeah, but you can open it up and literally look for the connection you're trying to make. And they have visual pictures of how they work or how they go together. [01:11:16] Speaker C: And a lot of times there's three or four or five different ways you can make it happen. [01:11:19] Speaker B: Yes. And a lot of times they can. The cost can vary tremendously. Like with a post base, you can spend, you know, $5 or $35 for the same sort of connection. The differences are that one is going to be built for specific things, you know, either lateral or uplift, or there's just different things. So you can have a really light duty or really heavy duty. And depending on what you want to spend or what the requirements are for that connection. [01:11:51] Speaker C: Right. Yeah. A lot of times it's depending on what's called out on your plan, because architects that draw plans, they will call out specific hangers that they have researched and know that they're going to do what they need to do in that application. [01:12:04] Speaker B: Right. [01:12:04] Speaker C: But very commonly post basis, what you were talking about, the difference between a hanger that was intended to be used with pressure treated material and a hanger that's not for pressure treated material. There's also hangers that are hot dip galvanized, and there's also hangers that are stainless steel. And the price varies for those as well. [01:12:25] Speaker B: Oh, yeah. [01:12:26] Speaker C: And they make, a lot of times they'll make three of the exact same hanger with three different finishes. And so knowing what your application is, is going to be important there. Not everything in Simpson strong tie is readily available in stainless steel. Not everything is available in hot dip galvanized, but a lot of the things that are very commonly used that way, you'll find those available. [01:12:48] Speaker B: Yeah. The thing with hot dip galvanizing, it's actually a process in which they take the metal and they literally dip it hot dipped. They dip it into this liquid stuff, it's really hot, and you just can't, you can't do that to lighter gauge metals. So the thinner metals, they just can't do it. You'll see hot tip galvanized in, bigger, bulkier, quarter inch thick metal things. Right. So that's why they came up with Z Max. But stainless steel, if you, for instance, were building anything at the coast, if you can see the water, the ocean, then you'll want to use stainless steel. If you're using Z Max, even with pressure treated lumber over there, I don't recommend it. Simpson doesn't recommend it because the, the fact that you're mixing the salt water with the copper azoles with the Z Max coating, it's just not enough. [01:13:40] Speaker C: Right. [01:13:40] Speaker B: So stainless steel is where you want to be there. [01:13:42] Speaker C: Absolutely. It's going to last. It's going to last like you want it to last and, and not have to be replaced. Right. [01:13:48] Speaker B: And stain with hardware fasteners. [01:13:51] Speaker C: Oh, yeah. There's so much same thing. Yeah. [01:13:53] Speaker B: Anytime you're doing anything fastener wise at the coast, you'll want to use stainless steel, stainless steel nails, stainless steel screws. [01:14:01] Speaker C: Screws, lags, concrete connectors, concrete anchors. [01:14:05] Speaker B: Anything stainless steel you can use there. I would highly recommend it. [01:14:08] Speaker C: Yep. And that stuff is all, of course, available. There's multiple different kinds of concrete anchors, redheads and, and titan screws now, which are really, really common. Threaded rod, a lot of times is available both in zinc and also in hot tip galvanized coupling nuts and regular nuts and washers, all in big sizes. I mean, from half inch all the way up to inch and a quarter. I mean, monster hardware that you can get, but it's all there, you know, it's all there and ready to go. You just have to, have to have some direction. And if not, then you find yourself wandering around the Simpson aisle just, just, you know, looking at possibilities. [01:14:48] Speaker B: Well, it's always a good idea to talk to the person behind the counter about your project. If you're unsure, just say, this is what I'm trying to do, you know, and if you have a question about hardware, ask to see their Simpson catalog. And again, they're happy to show it to you. Everybody has one. I have two because I have one in my, that I wrote my name on it because if I don't, people steal it. Yeah, but, you know, I always have one there that somebody can look at. [01:15:13] Speaker C: Here's, here's something. I just have to talk about this just real quick. Very commonly, you'll find hangers that are what they call a face mount hanger or a top flange hanger. It looks the exact same. Hanger, does the exact same job, except on a top flange hanger. It has two prongs that come out and sit on top of the member that you're hanging something from that adds strength to that hanger, making it perform better than just a face mount hanger. In addition to that, you have hangers that have more fastener holes. You have hangers that. That used to use bolts to bolt them together. And now, Simpson strong tie screws, which it doesn't seem like a bunch of screws would be as strong as some bolts, but they've definitely found a way to, with that technology to make it that work like that. [01:15:58] Speaker B: Yeah, they call them anything with a Q. So you'll see a lot of, like, post caps. You'll see a CC Q. That means it comes with these quick drive screws, SDS screws that are really, really strong structurally. And instead of having to drill, like you said, a big, you know, five eight diameter bolt through a six by six and keep it straight, you know, have you ever drilled through a post or something and tried to keep it perfectly level? [01:16:26] Speaker C: Absolutely. [01:16:26] Speaker B: To get it to the other side where the exact same size. [01:16:29] Speaker C: Oh, yeah. [01:16:30] Speaker B: It's so hard. [01:16:31] Speaker C: I literally taped a torpedo level on top of my drill so that I could try to keep it level as I was screwing it through. [01:16:38] Speaker B: So difficult. [01:16:39] Speaker C: Yeah, it really is. [01:16:40] Speaker B: So they. Anyway, they came up with this thing they call SDS screws that are extremely strong, and you just screw them in from both sides, and you're done. [01:16:49] Speaker C: Yeah, it's, uh. It is the. The amount of product that they put out to accomplish what they set out to accomplish is dizzying, honestly. And, uh, the only way to really appreciate it is. Is just to, like you said, get a book and. And walk through it and. And see what's in there is gonna work for you. [01:17:08] Speaker B: We should talk about nails. Oh, yeah, nails. There's so many different types, you know. [01:17:13] Speaker C: And if you're looking through the book, a lot of times it will tell you you need a certain penny nail to be used with this hanger. Well, that penny nail does not necessarily mean the length of the. Of the nail. Oftentimes, what it means is the gauge or the thickness of the nail. Like, you can get a. An inch and a quarter galvanized tico nail or an inch and a half galvanized tico nail or an n 54. You ever drove one of those things? [01:17:40] Speaker B: I have not. [01:17:41] Speaker C: Those things are monsters. [01:17:43] Speaker B: They are big. [01:17:43] Speaker C: Yeah. So tico nails, specifically used for joist hangers or otherwise joist hanger nails. Then apart from that, of course, you have, you have hot dip galvanized nails. And then, of course, another very common one. Vinyl sinkers. [01:17:57] Speaker B: Yeah. Vinyl sinkers are kind of like a relic these days. You know, most framers are building things out of with gun nails, you know, pneumatic guns that they shoot racks of nails. So the vinyl coating on those sinkers that they called was for. [01:18:15] Speaker C: It's a glue. [01:18:16] Speaker B: Well, it would lubricate the nail as it went through. [01:18:19] Speaker C: It melts with the friction. [01:18:21] Speaker B: Yep. And then when it got into there. Yeah. It would kind of melt and hold the nail in place, act as a glue. [01:18:25] Speaker C: Yeah. But that was definitely intended for use interior. Right. When you're framing together the house, and then ultimately you're going to side it. And that's not going to be seeing weather, anything. That's going to be seeing whether you want it to be hot dip galvanized. We used to use electro galvanized nails for the longest time, but ever since the treatment change, everything's been hot dip galvanized. And then, of course, like we mentioned, stainless steel. The very best way to put fence boards on a fence. Um, hot dip galvanized will not rust or fall apart, but they will still cause your cedar to bleed. [01:19:00] Speaker B: Yeah. They turn black and they help. You have black drip marks at every nail. [01:19:04] Speaker C: Yeah. And so stainless steel is the best way to go for your fence. [01:19:08] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:19:08] Speaker C: But there is definitely a lot of that hardware out there, and you just gotta go out there and check it out for yourself. [01:19:13] Speaker B: I tell you what, when you walk in that nail aisle, don't be intimidated. Just tell the person what you're trying to work on and they'll point in the right direction. [01:19:20] Speaker C: Absolutely. Well, that's all the time we got. Thank you so much for tuning in and learning more about lumberyard lingo. We sure appreciate it. This has been another episode of your. [01:19:27] Speaker B: Weekend warriors right here, the weekend warriors radio network. [01:19:30] Speaker C: Have a great week.