[00:00:01] Speaker A: You know, Tony, you're the window expert, right?
[00:00:04] Speaker B: Well, I'm the window expert in this room, but there's a lot of people who know a lot more about windows than I do. I sold them for a few years for par. So I've got a lot of answers.
[00:00:15] Speaker A: Yeah, window is a curse word for me. I don't love them, I don't sell them, and I know just enough about them to be dangerous.
[00:00:23] Speaker B: Are you one of those guys that says, I built you a perfectly good wall, and then you cut a hole in it, and now all the cold and hot air just run back and forth through the wall?
[00:00:35] Speaker A: It is funny when you talk about. When you talk to people that do building science, they always say that. They say you build this perfectly amazing, energy efficient house and then you just cut a giant hole in it.
[00:00:45] Speaker B: Yeah, they do. I hear that all the time. But people don't like to live in.
[00:00:50] Speaker A: Boxes that they can't see out of 100%.
[00:00:52] Speaker B: So it's a necessary sacrifice to have windows and be able to see outside without being outside.
[00:01:01] Speaker A: All right, so that's what we're talking about today. We're going to be talking about in our series of energy efficiency, new windows, and how to determine if and when you need new windows. And then also things to consider when window shopping. So this is a special episode because we actually. Shopping window shopping. We actually brought in a friend.
We've got Corey Clayton sitting in here with us. We've got two corys, so we're just going to call him Clayton.
[00:01:30] Speaker C: How you doing with that? I'm good.
[00:01:32] Speaker B: I was really liking the premise that we went out onto the street and found a homeowner that we didn't know, and we dragged him in here. I was going to go with that. And you already outed our guest as a friend.
[00:01:44] Speaker A: He's just walking by. The good news is that I really.
[00:01:47] Speaker C: Am leaning on you guys for the content here. I only have questions, so I'm perfect observer.
[00:01:52] Speaker A: Well, we've got answers. That's what this show is about.
[00:01:55] Speaker B: Yes, absolutely.
[00:01:56] Speaker A: So we thought it would be cool to bring a buddy in here. Sorry, a stranger. We don't know him at all.
Just walking down the street. He said, hey, you want to be on our podcast?
[00:02:06] Speaker C: And this is like a kidnapping episode.
[00:02:08] Speaker A: In addition to tap three times.
[00:02:12] Speaker B: It's going to be good. Sometimes corey and I, we've been doing this stuff for a long time. We've been dealing with these things, selling these things, and even installing this type of stuff. And sometimes we take for granted, what someone knows and doesn't know. So as we're talking along and you interject with question marks and things, it will help keep us grounded and remind us to expand on certain things.
[00:02:36] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:02:36] Speaker C: And as a homeowner who's trying to always improve his skills and all those things, having my ideas and searching them online and getting those answers versus reality from two guys who are pros is very different concept.
[00:02:48] Speaker A: It is true. There is so much information on the Internet, it's hard to know what's real. And coupled with, like, especially with windows, you get these people that travel the neighborhoods, knocking on doors, you invite them into your house, they give you the spiel, and they tell you that windows for your house are the biggest investment that you could possibly make. And you need to do this, and you need to sign the dotted line right now. And it's only going to cost you $70,000. Right. I hear that story so often. And then they sit there and go, wow, that's too much. And then they call their boss and all of a sudden it's 40,000. And then they call their boss again and then next thing you know, it's 30,000.
[00:03:32] Speaker B: Like buying a car for the sake of Pete.
[00:03:34] Speaker A: It truly is. And I feel like some of these people are taking advantage.
[00:03:40] Speaker C: Actually, we have the no soliciting signs out, but that doesn't matter much these days. Had someone knock on the door recently, answered it. And they proposed to me advertising in our yard at a discounted rate, almost a price you just couldn't believe. And I just told them by and didn't know what to do with it. And I'm wondering, advertising windows, it wasn't specifically windows.
I can't recall exactly what it was. We're working on a lot of projects on the house right now.
[00:04:04] Speaker A: So they wanted to put a sign up in your yard to advertise their business, their company.
[00:04:10] Speaker B: Okay. All right.
[00:04:11] Speaker A: Interesting.
[00:04:12] Speaker B: Yeah, interesting.
[00:04:12] Speaker C: As I go around the neighborhood, I'm seeing that there are signs in people's yards representing different companies. And really I should just ask and ask them if it beared out.
[00:04:20] Speaker A: So, funny thing is, we've talked about on this show a lot of times on how to choose a contractor, and we work with contractors all day, every day. And one of the things that people never do is vet their contractor well enough. They don't call the references first. They don't ask. They don't ask for references. And then even if they do, sometimes they don't even call them. And honestly, that is the number one thing that everyone should do, come up with a list of questions, call them and say, did they finish on time? Did they finish within the budget that they gave you? Are you satisfied with the work? Were they clean?
[00:04:59] Speaker B: Do they have a CCB?
[00:05:01] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:05:02] Speaker B: Are they licensed, bonded and insured?
[00:05:04] Speaker A: These are just basic questions.
[00:05:05] Speaker B: Yeah, go ahead.
[00:05:06] Speaker C: I know we're going to talk about solar a little bit later. We just went through the process of putting solar on our house, and one of the things I liked about the company with is they don't just say your neighbor's doing it. I mean, they do up front. But when you go into the app and you start digging in, even during the process, you can actually locate the people or the location and you could go see them if you wanted to. It's a little bit strange to knock on people's door doors these days. It's unwelcome, but it's an option. And at least that visibility gives me more confidence in that contractor.
[00:05:32] Speaker A: Yeah, I agree. I mean, I went with a company called Blue Raven Solar, and honestly, they knocked on my front door and I have no soliciting signs up. But I, at that time, was interested in what he had to hear.
[00:05:46] Speaker B: How did you choose Blue Raven?
[00:05:49] Speaker A: Well, I do have an affinity for.
[00:05:51] Speaker B: Raven, and this is something that I already know.
[00:05:52] Speaker A: I know.
[00:05:53] Speaker B: And to comment on your comment about that, it's not widely accepted to get visitors at your door anymore. When someone knocks on my door at home, I'm like, what is that? Why is somebody at my house knocking on my door? It's very not the norm anymore. Like, it used to be something that happened all the time, and it's very not the norm.
[00:06:15] Speaker A: Yeah, I actually despise a lot of those people that knock on my door. I feel like a lot of the.
I don't know. This is personal. And don't take this the wrong way. I just feel like it's a lot of scams. You don't know who to trust. And especially when they're knocking on your door and they're giving you something and they're giving you an ultimatum, like, well, you need to sign this today or this deal is not good. Right.
We don't want to give you the opportunity to shop. And the people that I dealt with blue Raven, he gave me my bid and he offered it. He said, yeah, go shop around. Go call, ask questions.
[00:06:50] Speaker C: I know we've gotten a little bit solar here, off topic. But I vetted not only the company I ended up going with, I did bring in a separate company and made sure I referenced that in my conversations with them, and I vetted them against each other, and I did my research, and it wound up being a year and a half process, which is longer than desired. I had some other considerations there for preparation, but in the end, I was confident in that company and that representative, and then also in the value they provided from a payment and interest perspective. I got under a good rate there.
[00:07:20] Speaker A: Yeah, 100%. Well, it kind of translates into windows, which is the topic for today, because you get a lot of those. You get a lot of people rolling into on your street and saying, hey, do you know Jack down the road, your neighbor? And I'm like, no, I don't know him. Well, he just bought a whole window pack from us. Good for you.
[00:07:38] Speaker B: Yeah, and it's good for Jack. This is something else I want you to know, folks, this is not coincidence. These people know when someone's windows need to be replaced. You can stand at the street and look at somebody's windows and say, those are old windows, or you can see a seal failure in the glass and say, those windows are tired. They are not performing. They are choosing you. And then they're coming to you, and you're already experiencing the things that they're going to be telling you they can fix. You already have a draught, or you already have condensation on the inside of the window, or mold or mildew, or whatever it is you're already experiencing that they come in and say, we can fix that. And you are inclined to do the easiest thing, which is they're standing here. It's something that I need. Why wouldn't I just do it? And it's at that point that you get taken 100%.
[00:08:29] Speaker C: People are afraid to say no. And to the point where it's strange to have someone come to your door, I think it's so strange in that moment, you're not really thinking clearly, and you could sign up for something that you regret long term. So I definitely take my time there.
[00:08:41] Speaker A: Yeah, that's a good tip. Honestly, if somebody offers you something, never sign that day, ever. Just don't do it. Just don't sign that day.
[00:08:49] Speaker B: Right.
[00:08:50] Speaker A: Make some calls.
Think about it. When somebody comes to these new windows, like Tony said, you could have a seal failure on your front window, and it's all fogged over. That's kind of one of the things we're going to talk about, reasons you would even need new windows. And like you said, one of those is a seal failure. And what that means is windows are built with, well, new modern windows. They have vinyl frames with glass.
They call it an insulated unit. Insulated unit. And it has these spacers around the outside with adhesive. And that two pieces of glass are stuck to that. And that insulated glass unit goes in there with some double sticky tape and then a little piece of vinyl goes over that. Well, you might not need a whole new window. You might not need a whole new house full of windows. You might need to just get a piece of glass replaced, which is 100% possible.
[00:09:49] Speaker C: You might not need triple pane. And I don't know if they offer quadruple pain, but I'm sure there's the conversation.
[00:09:55] Speaker A: Yeah, there are a lot of things. And that's what today is about. So first thing on the list, Tony, reasons you would even need a new window or a whole house full of new windows. And you mentioned the very first one, seal failure, but the next one would be drafts and air leaks. If you are physically feeling draughts through your windows or around your windows, and we talked about this last week as well, with insulating and air sealing, the window might not be the reason that you're feeling draughts. It might be that your window isn't properly sealed and insulated around its frame.
[00:10:31] Speaker B: It's actually most likely the reason.
[00:10:33] Speaker A: Most likely. So unless you're, if you have newer windows, and I mean anything post 1985, would you say somewhere in there? 1990?
[00:10:43] Speaker B: Yeah, mid 80s he started seeing vinyl coming in. So anything after 1990 is going to.
[00:10:48] Speaker A: Likely be vinyl or wood double pane vinyl windows in your home, chances are they're probably in good shape. And if you're feeling drafts and air leaks, it could very well be. The easiest thing to do is to pop the trim off and see what the insulation situation is. You might have to just grab some window and door spray foam and fill that in, right?
[00:11:09] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:11:09] Speaker A: So that's something to keep in mind.
[00:11:12] Speaker B: Yeah. Another thing that's going to be a huge tip for you that you know you need new windows is that your power bill is more than everyone else around you. If you're talking to people about how much they're spending for their power or for their energy bill, and it seems that yours is so much higher, there's a very good possibility that your windows are not energy efficient and need to be replaced if you have aluminum framed windows. Now, this is not every aluminum framed window because they do make thermally broken aluminum framed windows. Right. With a thermal break means that it's got an insulated glass unit in it and so it performs better. But if you have aluminum windows and you see wetness, sweat on the inside of those aluminum frames, and that's a single pane window, and those need to be replaced, they are not doing anything for you.
[00:12:08] Speaker A: Right.
[00:12:09] Speaker B: There's a lot of things. If you have an older house, something that's in the 80, 90 or 100 year old, that house has also not got insulated glass on it, and it's not performing for you for sure. So that's one telltale sign if your energy bill is high, especially compared to those around you, that you definitely need to replace those windows.
[00:12:30] Speaker C: And you just reminded me, I'm thinking of what's in the window track. Is there dirt collection? Is there mold growth? Are those things that would be evidence of some need there?
[00:12:39] Speaker A: Definitely. When you talk about old leaky windows, moisture and mold is definitely one of those indicators. Because if you're getting mold and mildew, it's because you're getting moisture in there.
[00:12:50] Speaker B: Right.
[00:12:51] Speaker A: Or if you're getting dirt packed in there, then the seal around the perimeter of the window might be compromised. If it's a tilt out window or if it's a casement window. And what we mean by casement is it's got a little hand crank, and that crank goes, cranks the window out and back in. Tilt out window, same thing. If there's a seal on the sash and if that seal is bad, then all of that stuff could be coming.
[00:13:17] Speaker B: That's absolutely right.
[00:13:18] Speaker C: Yeah, I'm thinking about longevity there. You're told something's going to last for 30 years, and then it's really also critical to account for the external environment. Right. I'm having a conversation with a friend right now who's down at the coast area here in Oregon. And it's a much different conversation or consideration of the windows they need there versus what we might get here in the valley.
[00:13:36] Speaker A: You're absolutely right. And that's another thing that when we talk about, we're going to get into this a little later on when choosing windows, but the situation that you're in, for instance, we've talked about on the show, replacing your entry door, for example.
People love wood doors. Wood doors are just beautiful. They look amazing. But if you've got a southern facing entry to your home with no overhang to speak of, you definitely would not want a wooden door there. And there's a lot of those same considerations when you're talking about windows. If you have a house at the beach with full front facing windows to the ocean, there's a lot of different considerations there. Stainless steel hardware, double pane, really extra thick frames.
[00:14:29] Speaker C: The view is worth it.
[00:14:30] Speaker A: It is worth it.
[00:14:31] Speaker B: Yeah. Here's another thing. I'm just going to throw this out, since you're talking about it the way that your windows are facing, and we're going to talk a little bit about that when we talk later about replacing your windows and choosing windows. But the way your windows are facing, if your windows are facing the setting sun, like at the beach, for example, that afternoon sun is very hot. If these are big windows, then you might want to consider a film, some kind of a solar gray tint that goes in the window that will slow down the amount of heat and ultraviolet rays that are coming through that window.
[00:15:09] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:15:09] Speaker C: I have an opportunity at my house there for that conversation because we have coverings, we have windows, and then you have those windows that are higher up that we really didn't do anything for. And there's a lot of Uva light that comes through there and certainly heats our house. And we used to have an issue where our thermostat was within that path. And so it was actually affecting the navigation of the heating and cooling system within our home, according to the exposed window, not the temperature in the home.
[00:15:36] Speaker A: So the thermostat thought it was 124 degrees in your house, and it was really just the sun. That's crazy. That makes a lot of sense. All right, next one on the list. Tony kind of mentioned it. Condensation inside the glass. Yeah.
[00:15:50] Speaker B: We called it a seal failure, which is an industry term, a seal failure, because the two pieces of glass are sealed together with that spacer bar that is in there, and then that air is trapped in there. Sealed in there. Right. It doesn't come and go. And so that air is in there. If that seal of those two pieces of glass on that bar is broken and moisture is allowed to get in there, that's what we call a seal failure. And you'll get that sort of foggy glass look in between the panes. You cannot wipe that off. You can't wash off, no matter how much you scrub. That is an insulated unit that has failed and needs to be replaced. And like you were talking about earlier, you might not need to replace the whole window, which means you don't have to replace the trim or the sheet rock or any of the things that go along with that. You might be able to pop the snap bead, get that piece of insulated glass out, put in a new piece of insulated glass, and put the snap bead back on and rock and roll. You're good to go.
[00:16:49] Speaker C: Absolutely.
[00:16:49] Speaker A: And the thing about that is that is a DIY project. I've done it personally, with your help, Tony. We had a situation here in my house, in my kitchen. We were remodeling.
[00:17:00] Speaker B: Did we have to do that same window twice? That is so funny. I remember that, actually, the first time.
[00:17:07] Speaker A: Was when my daughter ran through it. She didn't run through it. She was running in the house. And she would run from one side of the house all the way to the other side, put her arm up to stop herself, and then turn around, run the other way. And she did that. The window this big, tall. Yeah.
[00:17:23] Speaker B: This window was a full height window. So it was tempered glass. So when it broke, it didn't create shards.
[00:17:30] Speaker A: It was supposed to be tempered, and it wasn't.
[00:17:33] Speaker B: Oh, no.
[00:17:33] Speaker A: And she hit that dang thing, and it cracked right down the middle. And I felt lucky because big chunks of glass were falling out. And given the wrong situation, that glass could have cut her very badly. But because she was pushing off the window and then running, she didn't get cut.
[00:17:53] Speaker B: She wasn't there when it came down.
[00:17:55] Speaker A: And that was one of the things that you mentioned to me said. You said that should have been tempered.
[00:18:00] Speaker B: Right.
[00:18:00] Speaker A: So when we replaced it, we did put a tempered glass unit in there.
[00:18:04] Speaker B: And then when it broke, the next time, it was much cleaner.
[00:18:06] Speaker A: Well, no, we broke the other one during the remodel, we broke. There's two windows flanking my fireplace.
[00:18:14] Speaker B: I do remember that.
[00:18:15] Speaker A: And the other. I think that was Steve's fault, matter of fact.
[00:18:18] Speaker C: Lessons learned. That's great.
[00:18:21] Speaker A: Yeah. So what I was going to say. So that project is a DIY project, in my opinion.
[00:18:26] Speaker B: Absolutely.
[00:18:27] Speaker A: You can open up the snap bead on the exterior of the glass. There's this little piece of vinyl trim that if you just put a pry bar or pry knife under it, you could pop it right off. And then you measure the IGU insulated glass unit. Take that into, say, par lumber. Talk to the window and door specialist there, and you can say, I need a replacement insulated glass unit this exact size.
They'll get. It takes a few weeks, and then you just scrape the old one out. It's not easy.
I had to use on that one. I think I had to use some goof off, some liquid goof off to kind of let it drip in there to release the old glass. It seems like it's just really stuck on there. And it is. But it's just double stick tape. So you just have to buy more of that double stick foam tape, peel it all off, clean it up, put the new tape on, push the new glass unit against it really tight, and then put that snap bead back on. It wasn't that hard?
[00:19:35] Speaker B: No, it's not rocket science, but it is a little tedious.
[00:19:39] Speaker A: Well, and it only cost me, like, $100.
[00:19:41] Speaker B: And if it's off the ground or a heavy piece of glass, it can be more.
[00:19:45] Speaker A: There you go.
[00:19:45] Speaker C: If I could represent the non capable DIY team here. Do you do this from the inside.
[00:19:53] Speaker A: The house or from the outside? Okay.
[00:19:55] Speaker C: So thinking about when you're pushing that unit in, what's potential to be damaged within that effort?
[00:20:01] Speaker A: Nothing, as long as you're not really pushing. I mean, you're not going to push it so hard that you're going to break it.
It's like you're just sticking something to double stick tape.
[00:20:11] Speaker C: So no weightlifting prs in that moment.
[00:20:13] Speaker A: No, definitely not.
[00:20:14] Speaker B: It is also notable, just since you mentioned it, some windows are glazed from the inside and some windows are glazed from the outside. Millgard versus ply gem. For example, Millgard windows. Snap bead on the inside. Ply gem. Snap bead on the outside.
[00:20:31] Speaker A: Oh, interesting.
[00:20:32] Speaker B: Yeah, I didn't. So here's something to note, and I'm not calling anybody out. I'm just noting if you have heavy wind and rain blowing on a window and that window is installed from the outside, then as the heavy wind and rain pushes on that glass, it becomes more or less sealed.
[00:20:50] Speaker A: Well, if it's glazed from the inside, it would become less sealed.
[00:20:54] Speaker B: Exactly. That would be Milgard.
[00:20:57] Speaker A: Interesting, isn't it?
[00:20:58] Speaker C: Additional recommendation for the DIY crowd is to take a lot of pictures before so that you have something to reference before you start tearing things apart. I've gotten to myself into a lot of sticky situations, so.
[00:21:08] Speaker A: Good point. That's actually a good tip. I don't use that nearly as often as I should. All right, next one on the list, Tony, is difficulty opening and closing your windows, depending on what type of window you have. If you have old windows that are wood, they have those spring loaded things or the counterweights.
[00:21:29] Speaker B: Sash balancer.
[00:21:31] Speaker A: Yeah, whatever they call those things, balancers.
Depending on the type of window that you have, can it be fixed? And if it can't, then it might be time to replace.
[00:21:40] Speaker B: Yeah, definitely something to make you look at the windows. If you're struggling to open them and close them, the hardware is failing. There's definitely going to be the possibility that they're not performing. If they're not opening and closing properly.
[00:21:54] Speaker A: Correct visible damage to the frame.
[00:21:57] Speaker B: My mind immediately goes to wood windows. Wood windows are so susceptible to weather damage, and if they start to split, check, crack that wood, it's going to be very difficult. You can paint it and paint it and paint it and paint it and paint it, but eventually it's no longer performing for you. So if you have visible damage to your wood windows, it's probably time to get them replaced. If you've got vinyl window damage or aluminum window damage, it can be affecting the window, but you certainly don't want to have a compromised window.
It's already the area where.
[00:22:38] Speaker A: Of most susceptible. Yes.
[00:22:41] Speaker B: Susceptibility to weather. What I was looking for. It's the most susceptible. So if you have damage, it's something to look at for sure.
[00:22:49] Speaker A: Yeah. I've seen windows, vinyl windows with the frames that have been cracked. And if a vinyl frame window is cracked, water is getting in.
[00:23:00] Speaker B: It's coming in right here. Absolutely.
[00:23:01] Speaker A: Coming in.
[00:23:02] Speaker B: And then you're going to have potential rot issues.
[00:23:05] Speaker A: Totally. And depending on where that crack is, though, it might not necessarily be in immediate danger, but more than likely water is getting in and you need to take care of it. So that's a replacement.
[00:23:16] Speaker B: Unfortunately, noise infiltration if your windows are no longer providing adequate sound insulation. It's so funny. I supplied windows to an apartment complex in downtown Portland right off. I've seen it right off of I five.
[00:23:31] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:23:32] Speaker B: Triple pane. You mentioned triple pane windows earlier. Triple pane windows. And that was a sound transmittent class rated window STC.
[00:23:40] Speaker A: That's right. Specifically for that area to sound transmission coefficient.
[00:23:46] Speaker B: And you were standing inside the building with that triple pane window closed and you could still hear the traffic on 3.5. And it's right by the airport and planes are going by. It was an interesting thing. It was much quieter than it is when they're open, but still was not super quiet.
[00:24:04] Speaker C: Yeah. It makes me think about new construction, how close the homes are built together. Right. Just automobile noise or plane noise or traffic. What might be. Maybe it's your neighbors next door having.
[00:24:14] Speaker A: A good time or yelling at their kids. I swear my entire neighborhood knows my kids names.
[00:24:20] Speaker B: Yeah. The windows in my house. My house was built in 2006. So the windows in my house are nearly 20 years old. The windows that they're making today and selling to everyone are already more efficient than the windows I have in my house. And they're not that old. You were saying earlier, if you've got vinyl windows, and it's been since 1990.
You're definitely better off than you were prior to vinyl windows.
[00:24:49] Speaker A: Right.
[00:24:50] Speaker B: But the windows that they were making in 2006 are not the quality or performance of windows that they're making in 2024.
[00:24:59] Speaker A: Well, yeah, especially when you compare u values, and we'll talk about that later, but there's a certain level of insulation factor when you're talking about windows. And, yeah, you're right. They get better and better every single year. What you have to consider, though, is the cost analysis of tearing out all of your old windows and replacing all of those windows. And what true benefits are you going to see from that? And sometimes it is significant, but really, you just need to consider it because like you said, that last one with noise, if you live in a noisy area, that you're just tired of hearing everything going on through the glass.
[00:25:43] Speaker B: Right.
[00:25:43] Speaker A: There's something to fix that.
[00:25:44] Speaker C: Does that lend itself to a conversation of partial replacement? Even if a window is not damaged or clearly needing replacement, there's consideration or even a conversation with a contractor to say, tell me what I absolutely need versus what you want to sell me 100%.
[00:25:58] Speaker A: I mean, in my personal home, I have three different types of windows in my house because I never noticed that. Did you? I know you would probably know because.
[00:26:09] Speaker B: I was here when the new ones went in.
[00:26:11] Speaker A: Yeah, but if you were just Joe schmo walking in, you wouldn't notice that that one is a high efficiency mill guard window, and that one's an old ply gem window, and that one in the front is an old cascade window. You would never know that. So I chose to replace a couple of windows here and there that needed it, and that's just the way I attacked it. Yeah.
I actually will say one other thing. I have a bank of windows on the back of my house that's south facing, and they get sun all day, and at certain times of the year, I have this low e coating on those windows, which is what you would want. We'll talk about that later. But it basically reflects the uv light that's entering into, through the glass. That's how much uv light is penetrated through it, bounces it back. So I had this situation where all of the grass from the back of my house, I don't know, 5ft in, oh, 10ft in, 10ft out from those windows completely burnt to a crisp, and all the plants under those windows burnt to a crisp. So in lieu of trying to figure something out, replace those windows, I went out and bought shades for the exterior they make these shades that you just crank, hand crank. And when the summer hits, like July, I'll put that down through the middle of August, and I have no more burnt grass.
[00:27:38] Speaker C: As a family full of redheads, that's really important, too. We don't have to wear sunscreen lotion in our living room.
[00:27:44] Speaker A: Very nice.
[00:27:45] Speaker B: Yeah, that's a funny thing.
The low e coating that's blocking the uv rays is good and yet still has a negative effect on some things.
[00:27:57] Speaker A: Well, and I actually had this conversation with somebody the other day because they called me up. They need to replace a bunch of vinyl siding on some 30 year old apartment buildings. And what they had was the situation where the low e was bouncing off glass and hitting the building next door and melting the vinyl.
[00:28:17] Speaker B: Wow.
[00:28:18] Speaker A: That is the intensity of the sun bouncing off of that glass.
[00:28:23] Speaker C: That reminded me of a sales tactic where someone might come to you and say, we bought this bulk shipment in that pressure, fear selling environment and say, we're from somewhere else. We have this available now. Don't fall for that, yo.
[00:28:35] Speaker A: Totally. I've seen stories of those guys with, they'll just roll up to someone's house with asphalt. Oh, we have this leftover from a job, and we'll do it for $800 or whatever.
[00:28:45] Speaker B: You know what I mean?
[00:28:46] Speaker A: Yeah, it's crazy.
Next on the list. Tony, we were talking about uv, and that might be an indicator if your furniture is getting faded, your carpets are getting faded, the flooring is changing color with where the sun hits inside your house.
[00:29:04] Speaker B: If the grass outside is alive and the neighbor's vinyl siding is not melted, then probably your couch is pale white when it used to be red and the floor is changing colors. Yeah. It's one or the other, right? You're either refracting it and keeping it out, or you're letting it in and it's doing its damage inside the house.
[00:29:25] Speaker A: Absolutely.
[00:29:26] Speaker B: If your cat used to be black and is now white, it could be the sun got toasty.
[00:29:33] Speaker A: We've talked about this before, and when you talk about design, home design, and we're just talking about replacing windows today, but there is a whole conversation to be had about designing your home to accept that solar heat gain, right?
[00:29:51] Speaker B: Sure. Absolutely.
[00:29:52] Speaker A: When we talk about energy efficient houses, net zero.
[00:29:57] Speaker B: Passive house.
[00:29:58] Speaker A: Passive house. There's these implemented designs within the house that will give you thermal mass. Like, they'll design areas in the summer where the windows are lower, and then they'll have window coverings. But as the sun throughout the season gets lower, then it'll allow that sun in and they'll have big things inside the house, like concrete floors that will absorb that solar heat throughout the day and radiate it through the night. Yeah, it's actually very impressive. And you don't see too many home designers in our area, at least in the Oregon area, doing that.
[00:30:35] Speaker C: I was just talking to my daughter as we're driving through downtown Portland this week about some of the apartments there. Those high rises they have where they have exposed industrial type, know, ceiling and things like that. And the floor is concrete. And my joke was, of course, that you're paying more for less, but now you're trying to, I'm hearing you're convincing me if there's actually positive benefit there.
[00:30:54] Speaker A: Potentially. Yeah, there very well could be. And depending on how things are designed, like you said, it's a very cool concept. We're not professionals on passive house, but it's a design method, and you really have to consider the angle at which your house is facing where the sun comes in at what times of year, and it's pretty cool.
[00:31:20] Speaker B: Yeah. It's not new.
[00:31:21] Speaker A: No.
[00:31:21] Speaker B: This is absolutely not that smart people have known about for a long, long time. You know, it's weird, kind of. Corey, when you look back a long ways, you see something that was done a long time ago, and then a period of time goes where nobody does it. And then somebody remembers, or somebody who learned before implements it again, and then a long time without. It's like we've known this for a long time. People just forgot.
[00:31:45] Speaker A: Right. But here's the thing.
[00:31:46] Speaker B: Stop doing it.
[00:31:47] Speaker A: Here's the thing. When you develop as a developer, you're developing property. It costs a lot of money to design every single house for every single piece of property.
[00:31:58] Speaker B: Sure.
[00:31:58] Speaker A: When you talk about production houses, if you want an affordable house in a neighborhood, you're probably not looking at that passive house. Sure.
Are there builders out there and designers implementing certain aspects of that? Absolutely. Which I think is fantastic.
[00:32:16] Speaker B: Yeah, I agree. I agree with that. All right, so we talked about all of the things that tell you when it's time to replace your windows or at least be considering it.
[00:32:25] Speaker A: Right.
[00:32:26] Speaker B: So when you finally decide that you're going to replace your windows for any one of all of the reasons that we listed, how do you make the right decision about the windows?
[00:32:36] Speaker A: That's where I defer to you.
You're the window.
[00:32:41] Speaker B: Well, obviously there's a lot of things to consider.
[00:32:43] Speaker A: Right, right.
[00:32:44] Speaker B: You would consider what kind of windows you want, how you want them to operate, where they're going to be and what size they're going to be. Or maybe you're just replacing inside the holes that were already there. Maybe you're retrofitting them. There's a lot of things to consider.
[00:33:00] Speaker A: Right?
[00:33:01] Speaker B: Aluminum, thermally broken windows, vinyl windows, wood.
[00:33:07] Speaker A: Windows, fiberglass clad windows.
[00:33:10] Speaker B: Fiberglass clad windows. Absolutely. A lot of options out there. All of them. Now, of course, windows are built to code. They're all held to a standard. Some of them create windows that are above the standard, way above the standard. And, of course, you'll pay for those. Right? There's a little more money for those. But everyone is held to a standard. So if you're buying a window that's manufactured today, it's made to a standard, and you don't have to worry about getting taken. Right. But if you're buying the least expensive standard window, then you shouldn't be spending too much money.
[00:33:53] Speaker C: Yeah, I was going to ask about that price variation. When someone brand new comes into this and you have very differing options, how do you figure out where you land? I mean, finding a partner in a contractor, that's important for that conversation. But just from a common knowledge perspective, what would we look for there?
[00:34:09] Speaker A: Well, it really would help to go in and talk to someone like, I'd say, par lumber.
You can really ask the questions. It depends on what you're looking for. What kind of house do you have? Do you have a $3 million house on Lake Oswego?
[00:34:27] Speaker B: What do that windows look like in the houses in your neighborhood? Neighborhood.
[00:34:33] Speaker A: You can spend $150,000 on a window package.
[00:34:37] Speaker B: Absolutely.
[00:34:38] Speaker A: You can. 100%. You can.
[00:34:40] Speaker B: You could be buying three or $5,000 windows, or you can be buying three or $500 windows.
[00:34:48] Speaker C: And what I heard from you is there may not be a huge difference between that quality.
[00:34:53] Speaker A: Not necessarily.
[00:34:54] Speaker B: The least expensive window is made to a standard. Right. Everybody's windows are made to a standard. The more expensive windows, most of the time are made to a much higher standard.
[00:35:04] Speaker A: Right.
[00:35:04] Speaker B: You have the minimum standard, which the county requires, and then you have much higher standard windows.
[00:35:13] Speaker A: Well, and it really boils down to the type of window that it is. You have these casement windows that have a lot of hardware, and then they hinge and they open outward. Versus a vinyl slider, like your standard horizontal vinyl slider is probably the cheapest window that you can buy. Or actually, I take that back. It'd probably be a picture inoperable window. It's just literally a square of fiberglass with a window in it. Right.
[00:35:42] Speaker C: Do they make new windows in stained glass, like what you might see traditionally in an older home.
[00:35:48] Speaker B: That's a great question. I don't know.
You won't see that regularly. I'm not going to say that there's not somebody out there that's making windows and inserting stained glass, but it's not common.
[00:36:03] Speaker C: I'm just trying to accommodate for extremes here.
[00:36:05] Speaker B: Yeah, sure.
[00:36:06] Speaker A: Maybe on Etsy, you might find somebody on Etsy to do that for you.
[00:36:10] Speaker B: Yeah. Corey's got a super great piece of stained glass here that's framed into an old wood sash. That's probably a hundred year old wood sash with stained glass in it, which is absolutely gorgeous.
[00:36:22] Speaker A: My coworker Steve Willis made that for me.
[00:36:24] Speaker B: Yeah, I love that. I absolutely love that.
[00:36:26] Speaker C: Nice work, Steve.
[00:36:27] Speaker A: Yeah.
Where are we? Oh, yeah. So when choosing window, like you said, the biggest thing is to figure out what you're going for, whether, like you said, if you've got that $3 million house in Lake Oswego or you have a production house in a neighborhood, do you want to replace those windows with some really high end wooden, fiberglass clad or aluminum clad windows?
The performance as far as energy efficiency is what Tony's referring to is going to be about the same. Maybe a little bit less, maybe a little bit more. But when you talk about the quality of the product varies wildly.
[00:37:10] Speaker C: Longevity.
[00:37:11] Speaker A: Yeah, longevity. What you're using it for. So that really is going to determine the route that you're going to take. But as far as energy efficiency goes, let's talk about the insulating factor of a window, because everyone knows when you talk about our value. You've heard the term r value, Clayton?
[00:37:32] Speaker C: Nope, I have not.
[00:37:33] Speaker B: Oh, no.
[00:37:35] Speaker A: Our value is the number that is associated with insulation. So if you have, say, a two x six wall, you put that fiberglass bat insulation in there, it's going to be an r 21. The bigger the number, the more insulating it does. So if you have an r 38 or an r 40 in a roof now in your attic space, what is code in roofs now? Is it r 40?
[00:38:04] Speaker B: I feel like it's about r 40.
[00:38:06] Speaker A: Yeah, it keeps going up. But anyway, it's pretty intuitive, right? The higher the number, the better it is.
[00:38:13] Speaker C: Everything you say reminds me of an opportunity in my home. So this is valuable. Our value.
[00:38:17] Speaker A: Our value. And that is just, it's resistance quality. Now, windows, it's the opposite.
You use a term called U value, and it's completely opposite.
The lower the number, the higher energy efficiency it has.
[00:38:41] Speaker B: That's right. You can get a window that has a 00:20 U value.
[00:38:46] Speaker A: That's not standard.
[00:38:48] Speaker B: 00:30 is standard, but 00:20 is a very high performing window. 00:20 refracts more ultraviolet light, allowing less solar heat gain inside the house. And so if you walk up to that window right there behind you, you walk up and put your hand on that window, it is 50 degrees outside and 78 degrees inside. That's cold right now.
[00:39:21] Speaker A: Feels good.
[00:39:23] Speaker C: It doesn't feel cold to me.
[00:39:24] Speaker B: It doesn't feel cold to you. That window is performing right there. That insulated windows, it has a very low u value. You put your hand on that piece of single glazed glass right there.
[00:39:34] Speaker A: Well, it's on the inside.
[00:39:35] Speaker B: It's on the inside. Yeah. You'd have to reach underneath it. But that's going to be the difference. Right. How well it's performing. A 00:20 will perform very well.
[00:39:43] Speaker A: Right. The U value is actually a mathematical reciprocal of the r value and U value, what it actually stands for. I was actually looking this up.
It's basically its thermal transmittance, how much it allows it to go through.
[00:40:03] Speaker C: Did people come up with this, make this intentionally complicated?
[00:40:06] Speaker A: I know, right.
[00:40:07] Speaker C: It's a very counterintuitive.
[00:40:09] Speaker A: It is counterintuitive, but it actually makes sense to the scientists that came up with.
[00:40:15] Speaker C: Yeah, Tony, when you mentioned the lower control limit, we'll say for entry for windows in that u value of 0.2 versus 0.3.
[00:40:26] Speaker B: Right.
[00:40:27] Speaker C: How does that affect that conversation?
[00:40:30] Speaker B: Which conversation?
[00:40:32] Speaker C: The cost. What window that you should put into your home. Not too much. Not too little.
[00:40:37] Speaker B: Yeah. This is what we're talking about. If you've got a home that is a $3 million home, then you want windows in there that are going to perform at a very high level. And the reason why is because resale value is important. If you are putting the least expensive windows in the most expensive home, then you're devaluing the home. You're not being true to the home adversely. You wouldn't put million dollar windows in a $300,000 house because you would be losing the value that you spent on the windows.
They need to fit together. They need to be the right pairing. And so you buy windows for several reasons. But one reason is that, yeah, nobody.
[00:41:23] Speaker A: Says you can't, because you certainly can. Okay.
You can. You can spend as much money as you want and put the windows in your house that you want.
You know what I mean? It's cost versus value.
[00:41:34] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:41:35] Speaker A: Are you getting that money back down.
[00:41:38] Speaker B: The road, of course, you can do whatever you want to do, but what makes sense and what's going to cost you money in the end and what's not?
[00:41:45] Speaker C: Well, we'll see if that stained glass window opportunity exists and make some decisions from.
[00:41:49] Speaker A: I mean, let's start that business.
All right. The next one on the list, Tony, is to talk about the solar heat gain coefficient, which is something that you want very low. It's the amount of solar heat that is allowed through that window. And when you talk about it, there are different ways to achieve those lower numbers. And Tony talked about a little bit with double pane, triple pane. There's gas, there's argon gas. They pump into the middle, between the panes. That's invisible, heavier than air, and it gives that insulated glass unit, creates a barrier, more insulating qualities.
[00:42:29] Speaker B: Another thing that has been done is they'll use two different thicknesses of glass. In the insulated unit, you can get one thickness of glass and then an air gap, and then another thickness of glass, and in a triple pane, a different sized air gap, and then another thickness of glass. So it just makes it so difficult for that sound transmitted also the same way to travel through there. So changing the thickness of the insulated unit, if you've got a five, eight inch air gap or a three quarter inch air gap or a half inch air gap, changing that makes it more difficult for something to make its way quickly through there. And the more you slow it down, the more it has a chance to become more temperate with the temperature that it's working through.
[00:43:20] Speaker C: That's the insider information we come here for.
[00:43:22] Speaker A: That's right.
[00:43:23] Speaker C: You can have that conversation and show a contractor that you're aware and know things about it, even if you don't know all the detail. To have the conversation is worth it, because I'm thinking in that situation, if you were going to do an upgrade, you maybe don't need the full upgrade. You could have a different size pane on each side and maybe lower your cost that way.
[00:43:42] Speaker A: Well, I said it's important to know what you're buying. And in Oregon, especially in the valley, I would say it's pretty mild here. We don't see terribly hot days, we don't see terribly cold days. So does it really make sense?
[00:43:58] Speaker C: Wasn't it 117 degrees here a couple of years ago?
[00:44:03] Speaker A: That was probably pretty extreme. Yeah, I remember global warming. Oh, I remember those days.
But it's pretty temperate for the most part, right? Central Oregon. Eastern Oregon, eastern Washington. That's a different story. Maybe you'll want those to better u value there. So it's just something to consider.
The next one on the list, Tony, is visible transmittance. And what we mean by that is there are things that you can put on the glass. There's coatings that you can put on the glass that will reduce the amount of natural light, the amount of uv that comes through the glass.
[00:44:42] Speaker C: Great solution for what I mentioned earlier about that window that's up high. Trying to figure out, do we need to put an awning over it? Maybe not simple as something like that.
[00:44:50] Speaker A: Yeah, they make films that you can apply after the fact, and they go on the inside or the outside. I don't really depends on the film. I imagine maybe a little bit of.
[00:45:01] Speaker C: A risk, like when people get their windows tented and they have all the bubbles in it. You might want to do some work there.
[00:45:06] Speaker A: Make sure you do it right. 100%.
Then the next one on the list, Tony, we've talked about this a few times, is the frame material.
The frame material will truly determine how expensive that window is. Aluminum windows are back. They've come back. You see a ton of aluminum windows, but the difference is they're thermally broken. Now what we mean by a thermal break is if you have a piece of aluminum and you heat up one side of it with a blowtorch, how long does it take that heat to reach the other side that you can, if you're holding onto it, blowtorch on the other side of it, that aluminum will heat up very quickly. So it'll burn your hand pretty quickly, so you won't be able to hold onto it.
[00:45:59] Speaker C: Thinking about teaching my kids how to operate in the kitchen and what to do and whatnot.
[00:46:03] Speaker A: Absolutely. Pots and pans. So if you thermally break that, meaning that you physically put something that does not conduct heat between those two pieces of aluminum. If you had, say, a piece of aluminum that was separated by, say, a rubber billet, and you somehow fastened them together, glued them together, and you heated that other side with the blowtorch, it would take a very long time for the other side to get hot. Right? Yeah.
[00:46:36] Speaker C: I'm remembering back to my childhood when we lived in numerous apartments and they just had these, what I assume are horrifically quality aluminum and the challenges there. And I thought, well, certainly that's on its way out. Is this a retro upgrade or is it?
[00:46:51] Speaker A: No.
Aluminum windows are back on the market, and they're very high end. You'll see them in really high end apartment buildings downtown. I see them all the time in higher end, really high end luxury houses. And it's because of how clean they are. They're strong. The frames are strong. You can put triple paint in them and not worry about them warping.
They look great. But what they've done is they've created two pieces of aluminum frame, and where they join together, they actually put a strip of material that breaks that thermal transmission. So the outside of the window that's seeing the heat or the cold, it won't transmit that heat or cold to the piece on the inside. It's pretty amazing.
[00:47:47] Speaker C: Good to know. I'll reduce my judgment of friends who have aluminum windows. Aluminum windows?
[00:47:51] Speaker A: Yeah. Unless they're old. Old, single frame, single pane. Those aluminum windows are.
[00:47:59] Speaker C: Those are the ones I remember.
[00:48:01] Speaker A: Yeah, those are out.
[00:48:03] Speaker B: Yeah. The other thing to keep in mind is if you're buying a vinyl window, those vinyl windows, let's call that two and a half inches thick, probably, right. Or in diameter, that sort of box frame that goes around inside of that. If you were to cut that open and look inside there, there is a whole web of chambers inside there. And those individual pockets that are all created inside, extruded inside there, that all does the same thing. It's to keep the heat and cold separated from quickly making its way through that frame. So the vinyl frame is manufactured to perform that way. Wood frames, of course, do what wood do. They have their own bit of resistive value. And so wood has its thing. Vinyl has its thing. Aluminum has its thing, obviously, fiberglass. Right. All of them have their way of doing the thing that they do and choosing the one that's right for you and the price that you're paying for that and how it fits with what you've got and how it performs. All of that is part of the decision making process.
[00:49:10] Speaker A: And there is something to be said, too, about when you're talking about vinyl windows. Not all vinyl windows are created equal. So the lowest end windows, that vinyl is very thin. The actual material inside the frame is thin versus higher end vinyl windows, very thick. And sometimes even reinforced with aluminum pieces or metal pieces inside that frame to make it more rigid. So it's something to consider even within the same house? 100%.
[00:49:42] Speaker B: Yeah. It is important to note, if you're buying a vinyl window, the manufacturer making the window and their reputation for making good windows is everything. You don't want to choose ABC windows. I don't even know if there is an ABC window.
[00:49:59] Speaker A: Better be careful.
[00:50:00] Speaker B: You don't want to choose a company like a ABC windows. That you don't know anything about and just start buying those windows because they came to your house and are offering you free cookies.
[00:50:12] Speaker A: Yeah. Well, I mean, that's one of the things on the.
[00:50:14] Speaker B: Every window install is warranty.
[00:50:17] Speaker A: What is involved in the window manufacturer? What is their warranty? And that is an important question. Yeah.
[00:50:24] Speaker B: Choose a manufacturer that has been around, that's been in this area.
[00:50:28] Speaker A: Proven. Yeah.
[00:50:29] Speaker B: Proven track record.
And they'll be able to stand behind what they're doing because they've been doing it for a long time.
[00:50:37] Speaker A: Yeah. Don't necessarily just listen to the salesperson. Ask around.
[00:50:42] Speaker B: Right. Yeah.
[00:50:44] Speaker C: Internet value.
[00:50:45] Speaker A: Yeah. Let's talk about the next one. Tony, low e coatings. We mentioned this before. A low e coating is something that is applied to the panes of glass between, it's on the inside of the insulated glass unit. But what it does is it takes that light and reflects that ultraviolet light back so it doesn't allow it to enter inside of your home. Now, low e coatings has a cost associated with it. It's not a lot, but there is a cost associated with it. Now, if you have a window that never sees the sun, and what I mean by that is like a north facing window that's under a cover. Right. And it just never sees direct sunlight. It is not worth paying the extra to put low e coating on that window.
[00:51:34] Speaker B: It is notable that to qualify for energy star ratings, a certain percentage of your glass surface must be low e coated, at least low e coded, if not low e, two. But you're going to have some things like a half light in your door or a full light in your hinge door. That won't be necessary, especially if it's facing a side of the house that doesn't get a lot of sun. So keep that in mind. You will want to make sure that you are taking advantage of tax breaks and that kind of thing. So if there's a tax break for using low e in a certain percentage of the areas, then choose wisely those windows that you don't put it in.
[00:52:14] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:52:15] Speaker B: There is a little bit of money to be saved there, for sure. And then adversely to that, there is coatings that perform much bigger than low e, like solar gray or solar bronze. These are tints that are very dark and really reduce the amount of heat potential. And they also reduce the light, but they also reduce heat potential to come into the house.
[00:52:42] Speaker C: You mentioned solar. We were talking about solar panels earlier.
[00:52:45] Speaker A: Are they related?
[00:52:47] Speaker C: Okay, yeah.
[00:52:48] Speaker A: No. So it's just a name. They call it solar gray. It's a film.
[00:52:52] Speaker C: It's a coating that they put on the production. Nothing like that.
[00:52:55] Speaker A: Correct. Okay. That would be cool, though, wouldn't it?
[00:52:57] Speaker B: That would be very cool if we could just put a film on the windows that added energy to your home.
[00:53:03] Speaker A: To plug them in.
[00:53:05] Speaker B: Trademark.
Corey and I are going to invent that. Of course, we're not smart enough to do it, but we're going to want to.
[00:53:12] Speaker A: I'll file the patent, and then when somebody finally does, I'll say, I thought of that first.
[00:53:17] Speaker B: Yep, that's right.
[00:53:19] Speaker A: The next one. List Tony's gas fillings. We mentioned this earlier. They put a gas like argon inside between the glass panes. You can't see it. You have no idea if it's actually there, but it is manufactured and they actually do pump it in there. It's heavier than oxygen or air, so it will reduce the amount of heat that travels through and cold through that glass.
[00:53:44] Speaker B: Yeah, that's right.
[00:53:46] Speaker A: Frame insulation. And we kind of talked about this earlier. This is more to do with aluminum frame windows that have thermal breaks in them that contribute to the overall energy efficiency of that window.
[00:53:59] Speaker B: Right.
Window orientation. We talked about this a little bit earlier. We talked a little bit about passive house. We talked about how you can choose to put your windows in areas that will benefit you. If you're building a new house and you're choosing where you want your windows to be and how many windows you have in a certain wall, you certainly could orient the house in such a way. Choose how many windows are going to be on that wall and how high they are and how low they are and what kind of film they have on them and what they don't. And you could be benefiting from the sun during the day, which helps to heat the house during the night when it's cold outside. I mean, there is some of that technology. It's something to consider. Certainly would be fun to plan something like that.
[00:54:49] Speaker A: Absolutely. I would love to build a custom home someday. That is my ultimate goal.
[00:54:54] Speaker B: I'm going to just tell you something you don't know about me. I imagine myself building a home on a homestead.
[00:55:01] Speaker A: I didn't know that. Yeah.
[00:55:03] Speaker B: Out where there's not people, maybe off the grid. I'm not worried about being on the grid. I like being on the grid. But maybe off the grid solar panels, little passive house technology going on. A goat.
[00:55:17] Speaker A: A goat.
[00:55:18] Speaker B: Yes, a goat. Interesting for goat cheese. Goats.
[00:55:22] Speaker C: There's a lot of good stories around goats. I'm for that.
[00:55:26] Speaker B: A goat and a chicken. One goat, one chicken, one pig and one cow. That's the deal. I think.
[00:55:32] Speaker A: One chicken. Well, you need more than one chicken.
How long do chickens even live?
[00:55:37] Speaker B: Chickens lay like three eggs a day, don't they?
[00:55:39] Speaker C: Are you bringing family with you?
[00:55:41] Speaker A: I mean.
[00:55:41] Speaker B: No, it's just me.
Someone with me. Yeah.
[00:55:46] Speaker A: Your wife wakes up and you're like, sorry, I already ate the egg.
[00:55:49] Speaker B: So sorry, I ate the one egg.
I didn't say I had thought it all the way through. It's just something that appeals to me, believe it or not.
[00:55:57] Speaker A: All right. Interesting. We'll have to do a show on that. Yeah, we talked about this one earlier. The next one on the list is that your local climate? It's something to consider, because if you're prioritizing lower u factors in a more temperate climate, and the jump to get to that point 20 versus the zero point 30, or whatever your local jurisdiction says it should be, it might not be worth it. That's just something to consider. Yeah.
[00:56:26] Speaker B: Cost and budget is important, of course, as you're choosing your windows, again, a horizontal slider or a vertical slider is going to be a lot less expensive than a casement window or an awning window that crank out a vinyl window is going to be less expensive than a fiberglass window. A fiberglass window is going to be less expensive than a wood window, and a wood window with a bare exterior is going to be less expensive than a wood window with an aluminum clad exterior. And so if you're getting an aluminum clad exterior, wood window made by Anderson or Marvin, and it's a casement or an probably, and then it's six foot by six foot, it's probably the most expensive window you could imagine yourself ever buying.
[00:57:09] Speaker A: Yeah, I agree.
[00:57:10] Speaker B: Yeah. And so is that what you want for your house, or is it something a little more moderate? Those are the decisions you have to make based on your budget and what you need it to do for you.
[00:57:23] Speaker A: I will say that term gets thrown out a rock. Sorry. That term gets thrown around a lot. Triple pain. I remember when triple pains first hit the market and everybody was gaga over it because it was like, oh, they're so energy efficient. Yeah, but it's cost versus value again, because one of the things, when you throw an extra pane of glass, an extra sheet of glass in a window, that adds a lot of weight, a ton of weight.
[00:57:50] Speaker B: If you're trying to open the slide panel of a 450 horizontal slider, it's heavy. I'm here to tell you right now.
[00:57:56] Speaker A: Triple pane windows, by design are much heavier. So to support that weight, the frame of the window has to get bulkier and heavier and reinforced. So ultimately triple pane actually costs quite a bit more. So it's something to consider, potentially a.
[00:58:16] Speaker C: Consideration for DIY or not.
[00:58:19] Speaker A: So window diy is a unique situation.
[00:58:25] Speaker C: I imagine you don't want to make a mistake there.
[00:58:27] Speaker A: You absolutely don't. I have installed windows. Tony has helped me install windows.
I don't know if I would tackle a full house. Yeah, whole house project install of windows.
[00:58:41] Speaker B: And it's not just about the windows either. There's so much technology that surrounds weather, resistive barrier on the outside of your house, and how the window interacts with the WRB, that's also a big deal. And how it goes on constantly shingling and the whole deal. It's a lot to consider.
And if you're going to install all the windows in the house, then you're going to spend some time thinking about that.
[00:59:04] Speaker A: Yeah. Because you have to, like Tony said, anybody can take a window out and just slap a new one up, pop some screws in it and call it a day. But ultimately water gets in. Water gets in behind your siding, it drains down.
It's designed, we have weather resistant barrier that's designed to wick water away and let it dry. And if you don't install it properly, that water will get in there and stay there and never dry out. And then it will rot and potentially void warranty 100%. So it's not impossible. It's just you have to understand how to do it correctly before you tackle it. And then the other thing is, if you live in a two story house, how are you installing those windows on a second story? Because you're not going to carry a 450 window up a ladder and hold it in place. You got to have scaffolding or machinery. So that's a unique question. Or a red bull because it gives you wings.
[01:00:14] Speaker B: Yeah, that would also help.
[01:00:19] Speaker A: It's the first time I've used that.
[01:00:20] Speaker B: Yeah, it was good. It worked out good.
[01:00:25] Speaker A: We talked about energy Star certifications. Sometimes to get those tax breaks, they have to be energy Star certified. So keep that in mind. The installation quality of the windows, if you're hiring a professional contractor to do it, we talked about this earlier as well. Vet your contractor, ask the questions, call the numbers.
And if you want to know more about that, go listen to our show called hiring a contractor.
[01:00:52] Speaker B: Yeah.
[01:00:53] Speaker A: Get a referral, referrals. And then the very last one, Tony, that you need to consider is the local jurisdiction that you're in. There are codes. There are local codes. There are neighborhood codes. There are hoas that literally specify what types of things you can put on your house, what types of windows, sometimes what brand of windows, if you can have grids in them or not.
It's in the details. If you just run out and buy windows. I was reading a story the other day on Reddit, actually, about a guy who went out and went to the store, bought all the windows for his house, brought them home, and has slowly been replacing them, only to find out that they didn't meet code.
[01:01:43] Speaker B: Oh, no.
[01:01:44] Speaker A: In his area. And he said, what do I do? And it was like zero one on the U value.
So people were compelling him to go talk to the city inspector and see if it will fly right. But it's things like that that if you don't do a little bit of homework on the front side, that could bite you on the backside.
[01:02:02] Speaker B: Yeah, it could bite.
[01:02:03] Speaker A: I was telling these guys a story before the show that I grew up in Flint, Michigan. And there's a small area of flint called Carriage Town. It's a historic. It's on the National Historic Registry. It's all these original houses that were built 150 years ago. And you cannot put anything but wood windows as replacement. So if you know anything about Flint, a lot of the houses are run down. The cost of houses are very low. So you can go in there and buy a house in carriage town for 25 grand.
That was 20 years ago. Might be up to 26 now, but you could easily spend $80 to $100,000 on a window pack for a $20,000 house. So it doesn't make sense in that situation. But there are a lot of houses on the historic registry that are in nicer areas. But that's just something to consider.
Don't jump the gun without consulting your jurisdiction. Your hoa, all that stuff.
[01:03:13] Speaker C: Don't sign, same day.
[01:03:15] Speaker A: 100% don't sign.
[01:03:16] Speaker B: Don't sign same day.
[01:03:18] Speaker A: All right, well, that's all we've got for this episode, Tony. This was a good one. Corey Clayton, thank you so much for sitting with us.
[01:03:25] Speaker C: I've learned a lot. Appreciate the conversation and the opportunity, and I'm looking forward to seeing what this means for my home.
[01:03:30] Speaker A: Well, if you have any more questions about it, you can feel free to email us. We are weekend
[email protected]. That's parr.com. If you like this podcast, you know somebody shopping for windows, hit that share button and send it over to them. Make sure. You go check out our YouTube channel and our instagram. We are at WW home show and at par lumber. Yeah. Thanks so much for listening.
